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IPv6 is the only way forward

ankshilp.in

71–80 of 350 posts

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because the Internet is basically broadcast TV 2.0 so no one cares about having public IPv4's at home as long as they can get to their memes and streaming. Great job, we took something that was meant to be a next frontier in humanity and let anyone connect with anyone else without gatekeepers/intermediaries and turned it 21st century brainrot troughs. Perhaps a society not in slow intellectual decline would ha…

> Great job, we took something that was meant to be a next frontier in humanity and let anyone connect with anyone else without gatekeepers/intermediaries We already had that, it's called shortwave radio. The internet, especially as it's implemented and as it's used, is a terrible way to achieve this. It's service providers the whole way down.

> It's service providers the whole way down.

And still likely better than heavily regulated airwaves.

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#72

IPv6 feels like we just can't admit to ourselves that it has been a failed transition. What would it take to come up with IPv7 which takes in the lessons of IPv6 and produces something better that we can all agree is worth transitioning to over IPv4.

> What would it take to come up with IPv7 which takes in the lessons of IPv6 and produces something better that we can all agree is worth transitioning to over IPv4.

The only lesson to learn from IPv6 deployment is that if there's a workaround available and the world isn't burning, it'll take 30 years from initial design to actual adoption. So if you went out and took 10 years to design IPv7, it'd likely take until 2070 for it to gain some adoption. This is because big network hardware is costly and has very long replacement cycles.

IPv6 was already designed as a lessons-learnt protocol from IPv4 issues. The header is greatly simplified and it's more hardware-friendly, it incorporates the required features into the protocol and leaves extensibility as an optional add-on that doesn't slow down routing packets, all the while granting an infinite address space.

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His point is that you're managing alright because you live in a country where your ISP can give you a public IP address. The author lives in a country where that is not possible and accesses the Internet behind layers of NAT.

What's the difference, other than port forwarding? Does NAT cause some sort of unique issue that makes existence miserable?

> What's the difference, other than port forwarding? Does NAT cause some sort of unique issue that makes existence miserable?

The difference is that your home router does not get a public IP on its WAN interface, but perhaps the non-publicly-routable 100.64.0.0/10 [1] with CG-NAT.

So if you don't have a public IP address, how exactly are you supposed to forward anything? What is the other end supposed to connect to as an IP address?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv4_shared_address_space

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#74
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IPv6 cannot be backward-compatible with IPv4 in the way UTF-8 is with ASCII. Any argument built on that comparison reflects a misunderstanding of the protocols and leads to flawed conclusions.

Why not? Sincere question. As a very superficial idea, if we go back to the drawing board, for example we could decide our new cool concept of address to be an IPv4 + an hex suffix, maybe at the expense of not having a humongous address space. So 10.20.30.40 would be an IPv4 address, and 10.20.30.40:fa:be:4c:9d could be an IPv6 address. With the :00:00:00:00 suffix being equivalent to the IPv4 version. I just made th…

> So 10.20.30.40 would be an IPv4 address, and 10.20.30.40:fa:be:4c:9d could be an IPv6 address. With the :00:00:00:00 suffix being equivalent to the IPv4 version.

Like

> Addresses in this group consist of an 80-bit prefix of zeros, the next 16 bits are ones, and the remaining, least-significant 32 bits contain the IPv4 address. For example, ::ffff:192.0.2.128 represents the IPv4 address 192.0.2.128. A previous format, called "IPv4-compatible IPv6 address", was ::192.0.2.128; however, this method is deprecated.[5]

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6#IPv4-mapped_IPv6_addresse...

Or:

> For any 32-bit global IPv4 address that is assigned to a host, a 48-bit 6to4 IPv6 prefix can be constructed for use by that host (and if applicable the network behind it) by appending the IPv4 address to 2002::/16.

> For example, the global IPv4 address 192.0.2.4 has the corresponding 6to4 prefix 2002:c000:0204::/48. This gives a prefix length of 48 bits, which leaves room for a 16-bit subnet field and 64 bit host addresses within the subnets.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6to4

So you have to ship new code to every 'network element' to support your "IPv4+" plan. Just like with IPv6.

So you have to update DNS to create new resource record types ("A" is hard-coded to 32-bits) to support the new longer addresses, and have all user-land code start asking for, using, and understanding the new record replies. Just like with IPv6. (A lot of legacy code did not have room in data structures for multiple reply types: sure you'd get the "A" but unless you updated the code to get the "A+" address (for "IPv4+" addresses) you could never get to the longer with address… just like IPv6 needed code updates to recognize AAAA, otherwise you were A-only.)

You need to update socket APIs to hold new data structures for longer addresses so your app can tell the kernel to send packets to the new addresses. Just like with IPv6. In any 'address extension' plan the legacy code cannot use the new address space; you have to:

* update the IP stack (like with IPv6)

* tell applications about new DNS records (like IPv6)

* set up translation layers for legacy-only code to reach extended-only destination (like IPv6 with DNS64/NAT64, CLAT, etc)

You're updating the exact same code paths in both the "IPv4+" and IPv6 scenarios: dual-stack, DNS, socket address structures, dealing with legacy-only code that is never touched to deal with the larger address space.

Deploying the new "IPv4+" code will take time, there will partial deployment of IPv4+ is no different than having partial deployment of IPv6: you have islands of it and have to fall back to the 'legacy' IPv4-plain protocol when the new protocol fails to connect:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Eyeballs

"Just adding more bits" means updating a whole bunch of code (routers, firewalls, DNS, APIs, userland, etc) to handle the new data structures. There is no "just": it's the same work for IPv6 as with any other idea.

(This idea of "just add more addresses" comes up in every discussion of IPv6, and people do not bother thinking about what needs to change to "just" do it.)

> If IPv4 were more painfully broken then the switch would have happened long ago.

IPv4 is very painful for people not in the US or Western Europe that (a) were now there early enough to get in on the IPv4 address land rush, or (b) don't have enough money to buy as many IPv4 addresses as they need (assuming someone wants to sell them).

So a lot of areas of the world have switched, it's just that you're perhaps in a privileged demographic and are blind to it.

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#75

I don't understand why people are so negative about IPv6. I have done essentially zero home networking work and I just ran this successfully. It just works! ``` > ping6 google.com PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 2605:59c0:236f:3a08:7883:9d04:c26d:5fa1 --> 2607:f8b0:4005:806::200e 16 bytes from 2607:f8b0:4005:806::200e, icmp_seq=0 hlim=117 time=22.262 ms 16 bytes from 2607:f8b0:4005:806::200e, icmp_seq=1 hlim=117 time=26.124 m…

That's literally impossible, to hear some people tell it. "And also, look how hard it'd be to memorize that address", say the people who remember like 2 IPv4 addresses, one of them being 127.0.0.1.

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#76
post #65
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Translation technologies like NAT64 and company basically as good a job as can be hoped for. And they're quite good nowadays! But to stick with the ASCII->UTF-8 comparison: how would you have done the transition if you had to stay within ASCII's size of 7 bits?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-7 exists, but was rarely used. UTF-8 is convenient because ASCII has a spare bit, but UTF-8 is fundamentally possible because ASCII is variable-length. IPv4 is not variable-length.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-7 exists, but was rarely used.

UTF-7 was possible because there was an out-of-band mechanism to signal its use, "Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-7":

* https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc2152

What's the OOB signalling in IP packet transmission between two random nodes on the Internet.

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#77
post #51
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you squeeze that in IPv4 packet? Especially in a way that won't get mangled by random ossified devices in between?

In IPv4 you only need to transmit IPv4 addresses. If the "cannot be" in parent post is referring to the exact byte disposition in packets, then I go the other way around to claim that I agree. Because the only way that a UTF8 character can pretend to be ASCII is because ASCII didn't use all of the 8 bits in a byte to begin with. Only way to have something similar in this case, would be that IPv4 didn't use all of the…

They did that. Problem is that an ipv4 only host can't talk to ipv6. Adding more bits to ipv4 creates a new protocol just like ipv6 and has the same transition issues.

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#78

IPv6 feels like we just can't admit to ourselves that it has been a failed transition. What would it take to come up with IPv7 which takes in the lessons of IPv6 and produces something better that we can all agree is worth transitioning to over IPv4.

What changes to IPv6 would you make to make it easier to transition?

Whole model same as IPv4 (DHCP, NAT, ICMP, DNS, ...) just in v6. If IPv6 and IPv4 would be essentially the same from the get go, IPv4 would be a niche 20 years.

Sure everything above IPv6 have, but it took years and years of screaming to get it.

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#79

IPv6 feels like we just can't admit to ourselves that it has been a failed transition. What would it take to come up with IPv7 which takes in the lessons of IPv6 and produces something better that we can all agree is worth transitioning to over IPv4.

> IPv6 feels like we just can't admit to ourselves that it has been a failed transition. What would it take to come up with IPv7 which takes in the lessons of IPv6 and produces something better that we can all agree is worth transitioning to over IPv4.

Per Google, quite a few countries (including the US) are at >50%:

* https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=per-...

Every handset on T-Mobile US's network gets IPv6 (and they're not the only carrier like that):

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6oBCYHzrTA

So I'm not quite sure where "failed" enters the equation.

And what exactly would be different with IPv7? Anything that needs more address bits would have to update DNS to create new resource record types ("A" is hard-coded to 32-bits) to support the new longer addresses, and have all user-land code start asking for, using, and understanding the new record replies. Just like with IPv6. (A lot of legacy code did not have room in data structures for multiple reply types: sure you'd get the "A" but unless you updated the code to get the "A7" address (for "IPv7" addresses) you could never get to the longer with address… just like IPv6 needed code updates to recognize AAAA, otherwise you were A-only.)

You need to update socket APIs to hold new data structures for longer addresses so your app can tell the kernel to send packets to the new addresses. Just like with IPv6.

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#80
post #57

I honestly don't understand why IPv6 is not actively deployed in 2026. Every piece of networking hardware over past decade supports IPv6 and often dual stack too. And to switch between both often takes a few clicks if DHCPv6 server is up and reachable. Absolutely transparent, free, zero performance hit. But no, so many persist at doing v4. PS: I'm talking about MSO hardware. But client hardware should be at the same…

2026: $ ping6 github.com ping6: github.com: Address family for hostname not supported

Azure has very poor V6 support last I tried it.
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