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Things that Ruby on Rails people tell you

jameschambers.com

71–73 of 73 posts

Re: Things that Ruby on Rails people tell you

#71
post #14

What options are available for Linux/Mac developers? Can we just install Mono and Nuget and start hacking away?

You can install Mono(on Linux at least; don't know about Mac). NuGet wasn't working last time I checked.

Yep, Mono works on Mac. And there's MonoDevelop, which is a reasonably pleasant IDE.

(I don't know about NuGet and ASP.NET MVC; I only have Mono and MonoDevelop on my Mac because occasionally I modify C# plugins for a Windows app and I like being able to see compiler errors without having to install it on a Windows machine.)

Re: Things that Ruby on Rails people tell you

#72
post #70
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately most picked off the easiest ORM pattern presented and stopped there, without alerting their users to all the caveats of the pattern. I have a general dislike for Fowler church of patterns. That is not to say I haven't gone through what is listed on his site. I didn't find it intriguing enough. I derive 100 times more value reading K&R than GoF. There is limited time and large number of books - one has…

> K&R than GoF. Very different comparison to the patterns Fowler presented. The patterns GoF presented were very basic, and were interesting then with languages like C++ when people were still fucking up many of the basic patterns. The number of horribly broken C++ Singleton implementations I've seen, for example, beggars belief. Today that's less of an issue. The patterns Fowler presents are, as the title says, abou…

>> K&R than GoF.

> Very different comparison to the patterns Fowler presented.

You are intentionally trying to miss the point. I don't have to explain how K&R and GoF are very different books, and how Fowler and GoF are very similar books.

> people who in many cases have not even heard about the other ORM patterns presented by Fowler, much less other alternatives.

You mention Folwer 10 times in a row as if he is the appointed expert on ORM. Call me when he has written one, and it's better than the existing ones. Yes, AR is based on AR pattern named by him. So what? Talks are cheap. Produce a better ORM if you are so sure about the deficiencies and Fowler already told you a better solution.

> even then, the "Rails way" of doing your example would be Person.find_by_lastname(lastname)

find throws and exception and where does not. Whoever told you the rails way is to not use where and use the dynamic finder is full of it.

> The biggest problem in your example as why you are asking for persons with specific last names in the first place.

Do I have to tell you that's an example? Really?

> Also, what happens when you need to serve that query from a web API instead of your database? From a full text engine? From file? From a noSQL database? From on disk hash table? I've had to do all of these - often several from the same application. With a suitable architecture you just plug in your new storage and implement the finders you need supported, and won't have to play "hunt the raw SQL". Changing column names is the least of my concerns - that can be fixed with a simple search replace.

Querying needs a language. SQL is for relational databases. A data source agnostic query language does not exist. You can't abstract something that doesn't exist in the first place.

> github, twitter, heroku et al would like to disagree. And Ebay at least used to be written using ISAPI modules, and large parts of Yahoo runs or used to run on a horrific mess of PHP and Perl (I used to work at Yahoo; there was a lot of dreadful code). Your point again? (and Twitter is a particularly bad example given how much time they spend moaning about how they've needed to move most stuff off Ruby)

You said AR is a pain for big projects. I pointed out big projects which use AR. And then you are selectively copy pasting to paint the wrong picture.

Twitter moans about Ruby's performance, not project size. Either get your facts straight or stop intentionally twisting them.

> Strawman. If you think simple cases like that is what it is about, you've not seen much complicated Rails code, and it's a waste having this discussion with you.

I have not seen big projects. Twitter and Github aren't worth mentioning. Apparently I missed the memo where you were appointed the authority on big projects.

I have wasted enough time with you. Apart from mentioning Fowler about 50 times, and whining about how Person.where("last_name = ?", last_name) will be an issue when we find life on Mars and we need to integrate with their data sources, there is absolutely nothing you have to say about AR.

You win. You can go home now.

Re: Things that Ruby on Rails people tell you

#73
post #66
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a Java or C# project and tell me what you can do with the CLI. Auto completion? Re-factoring(grep and replace doesn't cut it)? Code generation? I said Java and C#, because I don't know which IDE people use for dynamic languages, and if it is possible to offer accurate completion without executing the code(in some cases, it won't work even with code execution but there was an article from the VS python guys(I thi…

> Auto completion? Re-factoring(grep and replace doesn't cut it)? Code generation? Auto-completion is an editor feature, and support for auto-completion in text-mode editors is not a problem, though I don't use it as I hate auto-complete with a vengeance. If you need to type enough for auto-complete to matter, your language and/or your identifier names are messed up. Re-factoring and code generation are features I ex…

> Auto-completion is an editor feature, and support for auto-completion in text-mode editors is not a problem,

Which mighty text-mode editor would that be where auto completion is not a problem? I use Vim and Emacs on a regular basis and it's very much a problem except for cases where it's handled by external tools(eclim, gocode, vimclojure).

> though I don't use it as I hate auto-complete with a vengeance. If you need to type enough for auto-complete to matter, your language and/or your identifier names are messed up.

Programming languages benefit a lot from auto-complete. The only people against it are people who couldn't get it to work in their choice of environment. I have zero inclination to type "validates_numericality_of" or "http.ListenAndServe" or ...

> Re-factoring and code generation are features I expect of the editor and/or external command line based generators respectively, and there's no reason for a heavy IDE.

Please refresh your memory. I said VS is a good IDE and you said a solid CLI is far more productive. I am not interested in your rant. I am interested in what does CLI do better than the IDE, particularly VS or Eclipse.

> I can understand people grab onto IDE's if forced to deal with ridiculously verbose languages like Java or C#, possibly. Yet another reason to stay away from these languages.

Oh man. My environment doesn't have reliable autocomplete. Let's pretend only verbose languages need autocomplete. Yay.

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