over / under it's just some kid broadcasting an encrypted Phish Prague 7/6/98 GHOST on repeat?
Random numbers, Persian code: A mysterious signal transfixes radio sleuths
71–80 of 128 posts
Re: Random numbers, Persian code: A mysterious signal transfixes radio sleuths
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
One time pads work only if only the sender and receiver have a copy of the pad - and they destroy each sheet on use. Distributing the pads is hard, but often it can be done easier than the message. Distributing a one time pad like this is a stupid idea: it isn't hard to collect everything you ever send, and it takes a computer a few ms to check every encrypted message against every possible sequence. That is breaking…
Every message is equally likely when you attempt this kind of brute-force decryption with a one-time pad. The code you get is actually 100% unbreakable if the pad isn't intercepted.
I think there's some confusion in this thread. GGP talks about distributing the one time pad via the numbers station. GP (rightly) says that's a stupid idea.
The numbers station should be transmitting a message encoded with a one time pad. The one time pad itself should be physically given in person to the spies who you want to communicate with.
Re: Random numbers, Persian code: A mysterious signal transfixes radio sleuths
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
Shortwave radio is more challenging than you might imagine. Near to the transmitter it's received by ground wave, further it's scattered off the ionosphere. In-between it's undetectable due to the skip zone. This might also explain why Amelia Earhart went missing [1] Coverage is obtained from multipath and reflections. Leading to variable strength and timing. Not as bad as DXing on HF with low power but much harder t…
My father regailed tales of his college years where it was a game to have a HAM radio operator start broadcasting and to have teams try to find where they were hiding, first. More challenging? Not really. It does require multiple boots on the ground to do it.
Yes, more challenging. Ham radio fox hunting is usually VHF/UHF. Waaay easier to direction-find, since the signal isn't bouncing off the ionosphere, and also the much shorter wavelength means that you can get highly directional antennas that are small enough to be held, and don't need to be 50 feet in the air to work well.
Re: Random numbers, Persian code: A mysterious signal transfixes radio sleuths
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Like the article says, satellite messages can be traced while radio is broadcast to everyone so it's impossible to find out who's listening. Shortwave radios are also cheap and widespread, so it's easy to get one anywhere in the world and if your house gets searched, it won't be suspicious if you have one.
> Shortwave radios are also cheap and widespread, so it's easy to get one anywhere in the world I always hear this in discussions about number stations, but I don't think this is true in the US. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen a general consumer "shortwave radio". Unless the regular AM band counts, which seems to be medium wave.
I used to have little battery powered AM/FM/Shortwave/weather radio lost it a couple house moveings ago. Kept it around for the emergacy weather radio during flood events and other extreme weather when internet/power isnt reliable. Should probably pick up a replacement come to think of it.
Re: Random numbers, Persian code: A mysterious signal transfixes radio sleuths
#75I wonder why they keep using a dedicated numbers station instead of embedding the code in a regular radio broadcast on a traditional channel? I'm sure that even before LLMs one could find a way to create a story where certain numbers / code words would be embedded without altering the underlying story too much. And they could probably get BBC / whatever station to air it. It would be a bit less inconspicuous to liste…
I think they do this, too.
However, the numbers stations transmissions are never a big secret. They're intentionally powerful so someone can pick them up on simple equipment without raising suspicion. A person can modify an off-the-shelf AM radio to pick up shortwave, for example, even in an oppressive regime.
It's a one-time pad, so the encryption is unbreakable.
Re: Random numbers, Persian code: A mysterious signal transfixes radio sleuths
#76I wonder why they keep using a dedicated numbers station instead of embedding the code in a regular radio broadcast on a traditional channel? I'm sure that even before LLMs one could find a way to create a story where certain numbers / code words would be embedded without altering the underlying story too much. And they could probably get BBC / whatever station to air it. It would be a bit less inconspicuous to liste…
I can't find it immediately, but I've read about something even sneakier than this. A standard broadcast station was modified such that its carrier signal was modulated by a PSK signal. The intended listener would use e.g., a PSK-31 modem to listen to the carrier signal and would be able to obtain the encoded digital data. Everyday listeners would hear the regular broadcast. The station involved _might_ have been a B…
You could technically just transmit data via RDS, too. Change a letter here and there and nobody would know whether that’s a decoding error or actual ciphertext. (Would need some kind of checksum or so, of course.)
@windytan did a fascinating audio clip highlighting the RDS data stream in a radio recording some while ago:
Re: Random numbers, Persian code: A mysterious signal transfixes radio sleuths
#77This reminds me of UVB-76[0], a shortwave military radio in Russia. It would be interesting know why they're using this method to communicate covertly rather than beaming down messages to a phone via satellite or something. I'm not an expert on radios, though, so maybe it's not as clunky as I'm imagining where an undercover asset is hauling around bulky equipment. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UVB-76
Like the article says, satellite messages can be traced while radio is broadcast to everyone so it's impossible to find out who's listening. Shortwave radios are also cheap and widespread, so it's easy to get one anywhere in the world and if your house gets searched, it won't be suspicious if you have one.
> Like the article says, satellite messages can be traced while radio is broadcast to everyone
I don't buy it.
Satellite downlinks are broadcast to everyone under a potentially massive footprint. Take a look at the footprint for QO-100 which you could use with very inexpensive equipment that looks pretty much like a normal satellite TV dish.
https://jeremyclark.ca/wp/telecom/sdr-for-qo-100-satellite-r...
Re: Random numbers, Persian code: A mysterious signal transfixes radio sleuths
#78For intelligence agencies, it is important to communicate with their spies to gather intelligence,” says John Sipher, a former US intelligence officer Is Sipher really his name. Nominative determinism strikes again. Sifr is also a valid word both in Farsi, I think. An Ironic and cruel pun.
You'd be amazed how many firefighters I know called "Burns", even leaving aside Ayrshire where lots of people are not-too-distantly related to a famous poet who, to put it mildly, put it about a bit.
Re: Random numbers, Persian code: A mysterious signal transfixes radio sleuths
#79This reminds me of UVB-76[0], a shortwave military radio in Russia. It would be interesting know why they're using this method to communicate covertly rather than beaming down messages to a phone via satellite or something. I'm not an expert on radios, though, so maybe it's not as clunky as I'm imagining where an undercover asset is hauling around bulky equipment. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UVB-76
Phones usually contain the hardware for radio too, so making sure agents have some set of models for that doesn't sound bad. Even if you had to use a dedicated one having a radio at home isn't that conspicuous? Or in a car, etc
ooh, new fodder for conspiracies about electric cars not having AM radios :-)
Re: Random numbers, Persian code: A mysterious signal transfixes radio sleuths
#80This reminds me of UVB-76[0], a shortwave military radio in Russia. It would be interesting know why they're using this method to communicate covertly rather than beaming down messages to a phone via satellite or something. I'm not an expert on radios, though, so maybe it's not as clunky as I'm imagining where an undercover asset is hauling around bulky equipment. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UVB-76
It’s simple, reliable, and effective. Shortwave receivers can be made fairly compact. They’re also very prevalent in most countries (every ham transciever), so there’s nothing suspicious to pack. People find numbers stations interesting, so they are often streamed online. One time pads have their logistical shortcomings, but are still the best encryption possible. The OTP can be compromised in known, visible ways, wh…
You could probably cheat with the one time pad and use a book as a key, pick a pre determined starting point go diagonally down accross the page convert the letters to numbers and xor that against the message. It would be near enough to random and less conspicuous than a pad of random numbers when searched.