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Midnight train from GA: A view of America from the tracks as airports struggle

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Re: Midnight train from GA: A view of America from the tracks as airports struggle

#71

Post by shiroiuma »

satvikpendem wrote: post #58
Reason077 wrote: post #19

> ”… booked the train overnight and into game day across a 650-mile route … A 14½-hour weekend train ride” Just by way of comparison, in China the 819-mile train route between Beijing and Shanghai takes 4.5 hours.

Imagine if we had passenger rail like Asia does, it would be amazing. But sadly it's all a matter of political will, the US simply does not want to create such a rail system where we can take bullet trains from NYC to LA.

There is no world where bullet trains between NYC and LA would make any financial sense at all. The trains can't possibly go fast enough for passengers to be satisfied with the speed (even maglev isn't fast enough), and the cost of track construction and maintenance would never be paid for by ridership.

I live in Japan; bullet trains are great here, but the distances they cover are quite short by American standards. Extremely high ridership, with trains covering relatively short distances between extremely populated population centers (the Tokyo metro area has 38 million people for reference) means the trains operate at a profit. That could be done in America, maybe, but only between select cities that aren't too far apart, such as DC and NYC and Boston. Even here in Japan, no one is taking the shinkansen between far-apart cities in the north and south; they use inexpensive and faster domestic flights instead.

Re: Midnight train from GA: A view of America from the tracks as airports struggle

#72

Post by dang »

shagie wrote: post #5

The regular site (rather than aggregator): https://apnews.com/article/airports-shutdown-long-lines-trai... This also includes some images that aren't part of the netscape.com version... which is probably part of the point of it: "A view of America from the tracks" has some pictures of Amtrak stations and Virginia countryside. (and for some nostalgia- City of New Orleans by Steve Goodman https://youtu.be/fhHxNMyw0dI )

Changed from https://isp.netscape.com/news/story/0001/20260329/e4d8ea591b... above. Thanks!

Re: Midnight train from GA: A view of America from the tracks as airports struggle

#74

Post by stockresearcher »

Loughla wrote: post #35
adjejmxbdjdn wrote: post #10

> The train is still longer, and time is money, we are taught. But certainty has value, too, even if it means at 11:29 p.m. departure. Unfortunately this is misleading. Outside of the Northeast Acela corridor, there is no certainty in train travel in the U.S.. Although legally passenger trains are now supposed to have right of way over freight trains, in practice that’s just not the case. So a 14.5 hr train journey c…

So I took a consulting job in a small town in Illinois called Quincy. I couldn't fly there without connecting in St. Louis, but I could take the train from Chicago. It was billed at 6 hours. It absolutely left on time but had to wait for three freight trains on the way. 9 hours later we got to the "station". One of the other passengers said that their previous trip was cancelled and Amtrak bought everyone bus tickets…

Quincy IL, the capital of Forgottonia. Used to be a bigger city, was destroyed by politics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgottonia

Re: Midnight train from GA: A view of America from the tracks as airports struggle

#75

Post by satvikpendem »

shiroiuma wrote: post #71
satvikpendem wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if we had passenger rail like Asia does, it would be amazing. But sadly it's all a matter of political will, the US simply does not want to create such a rail system where we can take bullet trains from NYC to LA.

There is no world where bullet trains between NYC and LA would make any financial sense at all. The trains can't possibly go fast enough for passengers to be satisfied with the speed (even maglev isn't fast enough), and the cost of track construction and maintenance would never be paid for by ridership. I live in Japan; bullet trains are great here, but the distances they cover are quite short by American standards.…

In China it's a matter of politics rather than financial sense, of unifying the country hence why they have them in ethnic minority areas too. The trains would be like roads, sure, most people wouldn't take them from one end to the other, A to Z, but there are enough people to take them from A to D, J to N, Q to T, so to speak. If one could commute in one hour from Boston to DC for example each way, daily without flying, it opens up more economic opportunities in total. But like PG said, the competition to an airline isn't a car or a plane, it's Zoom.

Re: Midnight train from GA: A view of America from the tracks as airports struggle

#76

Post by shiroiuma »

satvikpendem wrote: post #75
shiroiuma wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no world where bullet trains between NYC and LA would make any financial sense at all. The trains can't possibly go fast enough for passengers to be satisfied with the speed (even maglev isn't fast enough), and the cost of track construction and maintenance would never be paid for by ridership. I live in Japan; bullet trains are great here, but the distances they cover are quite short by American standards.…

In China it's a matter of politics rather than financial sense, of unifying the country hence why they have them in ethnic minority areas too. The trains would be like roads, sure, most people wouldn't take them from one end to the other, A to Z, but there are enough people to take them from A to D, J to N, Q to T, so to speak. If one could commute in one hour from Boston to DC for example each way, daily without fly…

Yes, I can see how some people might think the same system would work in the US too, with a HSR network going from Boston to LA, with stops along the way in NYC, Chicago, Louisville, St. Louis, Denver, and maybe some smaller cities too.

But China has a much larger population than the US, by far, and an authoritarian government that has no problem using the "build it and they will come" business model for large infrastructure projects that may or may not work out as planned and no worry about opposition from local politicians, NIMBYs, etc. Don't forget, most of their population is concentrated on the east coast; the inland areas are relatively unpopulated. And they don't have a population that's been conditioned from birth, ever since the 1940s, to think that automobiles are the mode of transit that society should be based around.

So even if they did build an HSR network across the US, I don't think it would work out. How much travel is there between Denver and St Louis, really? A lot of the intra-US travel is really between places on opposite coasts, or on the same coast, because that's where the population is.

Re: Midnight train from GA: A view of America from the tracks as airports struggle

#77

Post by ghaff »

ksymph wrote: post #67
stego-tech wrote: post #52

I've taken multiple Amtrak routes, all out of the Northeast Corridor but eventually crossing the country West or South. You don't take Amtrak because you want to get there fast, and you don't really take it because it's cheaper than flying. You take it because you can , and because it's more important to you to be (comparatively) comfortable instead of rushing from A to B. You take it because of the sights, the peopl…

Well, you can take it because it's cheaper than flying. Prices are comparable to the dirtiest, cheapiest dirt cheap flights with no checked baggage, carry-ons etc., but with more space, free wifi + (often) functional mobile data, better amenities, no TSA, and all the luggage you can carry. It's amazing being able to bring a whole guitar in a gig bag without having to worry about it at all. The romance of it is wonder…

Except it’s not cheaper unless perhaps you’re willing to sit in a seat for two days.

Re: Midnight train from GA: A view of America from the tracks as airports struggle

#78

Post by rvba »

pfg_ wrote: post #59
satvikpendem wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not really true, at least for the northeast corridor. Amtrak is the fastest way to get from DC to NYC for example due to traffic in the city if driving or taking the bus, and the distance from the airport (LGA or JFK) to the final destination in the city if you're flying. I take Amtrak somewhat begrudgingly because it often can be way more expensive than flights which are subsidized generally speaking over pa…

This only applies to sleeper car routes. You're on the traib for 2-3 days, mostly with no cell service. If you eat in the restaurant car, they will seat you with strangers. If you sit in the observation car, there's a bunch of other people sitting there too.

Do you fly in your own private plane, or commercial where you need to sit next to other peasants?

Re: Midnight train from GA: A view of America from the tracks as airports struggle

#80

Post by ghaff »

int0x29 wrote: post #46
ghaff wrote: post #28

I’m hoping it won’t be necessary but, if TSA is fundamentally broken with an international transfer through Dulles I will seriously consider taking the train from a union Station to Boston. Honestly surprised how many TSA people are still working without pay. I wouldn’t in their shoes. Maybe if TSA just basically shutdown commercial aviation in the US it would lead to some progress.

Historically they've gotten backpay. Also they are trying to keep their jobs.

I’m not sure historical precedent tells us a whole lot and Congress has now skipped Washington. It’s hard to say when this will be resolved. It could be a month or more.
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