Live data from Hacker News

CERN uses ultra-compact AI models on FPGAs for real-time LHC data filtering

theopenreader.org

71–80 of 166 posts

Re: CERN uses ultra-compact AI models on FPGAs for real-time LHC data filtering

#71
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm half expecting to see "AI model" appearing as stand-in for "linear regression" at this point in the cycle.

I'm half expecting to see "AI model" appearing as stand-in for "if > 0" at this point in the cycle.

This is why I am programming now in Ocaml, files themselves are AI ( ml ).

Re: CERN uses ultra-compact AI models on FPGAs for real-time LHC data filtering

#72

They used a custom neural net with autoencoders, which contain convolutional layers. They trained it on previous experiment data. https://arxiv.org/html/2411.19506v1 Why is it so hard to elaborate what AI algorithm / technique they integrate? Would have made this article much better

I'm half expecting to see "AI model" appearing as stand-in for "linear regression" at this point in the cycle.

Having work with people who do that, I can guarantee that’s not the case. See https://ssummers.web.cern.ch/conifer/ and HSL4ML, these run BDT and CNN

Re: CERN uses ultra-compact AI models on FPGAs for real-time LHC data filtering

#73
post #50

They used a custom neural net with autoencoders, which contain convolutional layers. They trained it on previous experiment data. https://arxiv.org/html/2411.19506v1 Why is it so hard to elaborate what AI algorithm / technique they integrate? Would have made this article much better

Because if it’s not an LLM it’s not good for the current hype cycle. Calling everything AI makes the line go up.

LLMs also make the cynicism go up among the HN crowd.

Re: CERN uses ultra-compact AI models on FPGAs for real-time LHC data filtering

#74

They used a custom neural net with autoencoders, which contain convolutional layers. They trained it on previous experiment data. https://arxiv.org/html/2411.19506v1 Why is it so hard to elaborate what AI algorithm / technique they integrate? Would have made this article much better

I'm half expecting to see "AI model" appearing as stand-in for "linear regression" at this point in the cycle.

That works well to get around patents btw :)

Re: CERN uses ultra-compact AI models on FPGAs for real-time LHC data filtering

#75
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm half expecting to see "AI model" appearing as stand-in for "if > 0" at this point in the cycle.

This is why I am programming now in Ocaml, files themselves are AI ( ml ).

I am sure you did not forget that pattern matching.

Re: CERN uses ultra-compact AI models on FPGAs for real-time LHC data filtering

#76
post #48

Very important! This is not a LLM like the ones so often called AI these days. Its a neural network in a FPGA.

> FPGA So they aren't "burned into silicon" then? The article mentions FPGAs and ASICs but it's a bit vague. I would be surprised if ASICs actually made sense here.

They make sense when you consider that 'on detector' electronics has all sorts of constraints that FPGAs cant compete on: Power, Density, Radiation hardness, Material budget.

Re: CERN uses ultra-compact AI models on FPGAs for real-time LHC data filtering

#78
post #46

When is the price of fabbing silicon coming down, so every SMB can do it?

My guess would be never. The closest you can get is "multi project wafers" where you get bundled with a load of other projects. As I understand it they're on the order of $100k which is cheap, but if you actually want to design and verify a chip you're looking at at least several million in salaries and software costs. Probably more like $10m, especially if you're paying US salaries. And of course that would be for a…

Doesn't this vary wildly depending on the process node though? The cutting edge stuff keeps getting increasingly ridiculous meanwhile I thought you could get something like 50 nm for cheap. I also remember seeing years ago that some university had a ~micron (IIRC) process that you could order from.

Re: CERN uses ultra-compact AI models on FPGAs for real-time LHC data filtering

#79
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm half expecting to see "AI model" appearing as stand-in for "linear regression" at this point in the cycle.

I'm sure I've seen basic hill climbing (and other optimisation algorithms) described as AI, and then used evidence of AI solving real-world science/engineering problems.

I am somewhat cynically waiting for the AI community to rediscover the last half a century of linear algebra and optimisation techniques.

At some point someone will realise that backpropagation and adjoint solves are the same thing.

Re: CERN uses ultra-compact AI models on FPGAs for real-time LHC data filtering

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm half expecting to see "AI model" appearing as stand-in for "linear regression" at this point in the cycle.

> I'm half expecting to see "AI model" appearing as stand-in for "linear regression" at this point in the cycle. Already the case with consulting companies, have seen it myself

Some career do-nothing-but-make-noise in my organization hired a firm to 'Do AI' on some shitty data and the outcome was basically linear regression. It turns out that you can impressive executives with linear regression if you deliver it enthusiastically enough.
Post reply on HN