Earlier quoted context omitted.
I believe you missed the point
Noone expects the etymology inquisition.
No one expects the etymology inquisition.
The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'
71–80 of 232 posts
Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
Getting paid for live performance was the traditional way for musicians to earn money for centuries. Record sales was a temporary thing that is now gone.
Live performance is also now gone.
Live performance is about status signaling. A party with a live performer (or at least a DJ) is considered fancier than one with just a streaming phone.
At the high end, live performance pays more than it ever has, since the exclusivity is what people are paying for. At the low end, the performers get squeezed because they are competing with lots of amateur DJs or people simply doing without a human.
Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a commercial act, the 'punk' costumes carefully chosen for the right signalling, by a couple of middle class kids. What's with this idea that your taste in music must spring from the purest and rawest authenticity, preferably (in no particular order) poor, rebellious, substance abusing, ethnic, and so on. Leading to all these musical acts styling themselves like that. The Ramones were sellouts and posers, just l…
Remember when Jack Black ditched his long-time friend, threw him under the bus, for being mildly edgy against the establishment?
Any respect I may have had for Jack Black was completely lost when he did this.
When his money was on the line he chose his side and showed his true self.
Gotta pay for those 'jelly beans' somehow!
Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'
#74If the Ramones put their name on all sorts of merchandise does that make them sellouts? I joke, of course, and I'm a big Ramones fan. I've had numerous iterations of that shirt over the years. I often use them as an example when discussing "what is good art?" They are one of the most influential bands of all time and yet they were terrible musicians.
> they were terrible musicians Not only are the songs they wrote really good and catchy, Ramones are one of those bands where it sounds so easy anyone can do it but if you give it a try, you quickly find out it’s difficult to get the nuances right and your results, unlike theirs, sound crude and obviously amateurish. They’re like AC/DC in that respect. Or Melvins.
I once saw a documentary on them, one of the critics had a quote that really stuck with me (paraphrasing):
If you or I drew a square, it’s unremarkable anyone can draw one. But someone had to be the first guy to drawn one, and that guy is the genius.
Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'
#75I dunno, Seems like author of article is projecting, I feel like most people would be happy if they made that much of an cultural impact
I wouldn't go as far as assuming the author is projecting, but the last paragraph of the article is indeed aligned with your second point:
> Many guardians of rock authenticity still complain that today there are plenty of people who buy a Ramones T‑shirt — maybe at some big multinational chain — who wouldn’t be able to recognize even one of the band’s songs. But the truth is that neither the Ramones themselves nor their heirs ever cared about that. In that sense, Arturo Vega’s work was just as important — if not more so — than the band’s first album.
Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a commercial act, the 'punk' costumes carefully chosen for the right signalling, by a couple of middle class kids. What's with this idea that your taste in music must spring from the purest and rawest authenticity, preferably (in no particular order) poor, rebellious, substance abusing, ethnic, and so on. Leading to all these musical acts styling themselves like that. The Ramones were sellouts and posers, just l…
Was Jack Black in Almost Famous? Are you thinking of PSH. I've mixed them up in my head myself, and I have no clue why. I was a Tenacious D fan from day 1, so it's not like they're 2 actors I'm only vaguely familiar with. And they aren't super similar in many ways. Yet they're somehow interchangeable in my movie memories.
You're right, thanks for the correction. It's a very Jack Blackesque character, in my defense.
Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'
#77Isn't the whole point of touring to sell merchandise?
Today perhaps. But in the past the artists money from selling records. So the tour was to promote the album, rather than the other way around
Payouts from records were also quite meager unless you were already a well-known act.
Music labels contracts have always been exploitative, they usually require the band to pay back costs like studio time, producer, mix/master engineers, marketing, before getting their cut of royalties in sales, for artists without clout the royalties share would be 75/25 to the label (or worse), more famous acts can get a 50/50 split, again after recouping the costs.
As any passion industry it is extremely exploitative, as much as people like to hate on streaming platforms nowadays the music labels have been the most evil aspect of it all for 70+ years and they managed to lurk in the shadows without attracting a lot of flak.
Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
Live performance is also now gone.
Live performance is about status signaling. A party with a live performer (or at least a DJ) is considered fancier than one with just a streaming phone. At the high end, live performance pays more than it ever has, since the exclusivity is what people are paying for. At the low end, the performers get squeezed because they are competing with lots of amateur DJs or people simply doing without a human.
Those are more like live appearances. Basically them doing stuff while a DJ plays a recording of a song the "artist" probably had 1% part in writing. Expensive karaoke. The actual musicians of the world lose money doing live performances these days.
Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'
#79If the Ramones put their name on all sorts of merchandise does that make them sellouts? I joke, of course, and I'm a big Ramones fan. I've had numerous iterations of that shirt over the years. I often use them as an example when discussing "what is good art?" They are one of the most influential bands of all time and yet they were terrible musicians.
>I joke, of course, and I'm a big Ramones fan. I've had numerous iterations of that shirt over the years. I often use them as an example when discussing "what is good art?" They are one of the most influential bands of all time and yet they were terrible musicians. This makes me to wonder why do you and other people like them and why were them influential? Isn't a band's purpose to produce good music and aren't peopl…
It depends who you ask, not everyone weight the same considerations about the things they contemplate to.
For some people, the esthetic get the biggest factor, for some other social message it convey is more important, and other will want a balance.
The classical example is separation of author from its work dilemma.
Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
I know most people don't take the concept of "selling out" seriously anymore, but the Ramones would not be sellouts for making Ramones merch. If they had turned into a hair metal band, where they would otherwise not make hair metal, just so they could sell a bunch of records, that would be selling out. Merely making money is not selling out
So something like getting Phil Spector to produce their record?
You’re going to bring up Phil Spector and not mention the story of Spector threatening the band with a gun in the studio?