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Liberated Systemd

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Re: Liberated Systemd

#71

Post by SahAssar »

worksonmine wrote: post #63
SahAssar wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facts: There is and has for a long time been a field for full name. There is now also a field for birthdate. You are free to fill out neither or either. Neither have a strong technical reason to be filled. --- Your position: You have no problem with the full name, but do have a problem with the birthdate. You also agree that the field that you have no problem with (full name) is more sensitive than the one you don't…

> Have I summarized the situation correctly? No, I don't care about either. It can be argued the full name is technically useful for the system administrators on a multi-user system, but I digress. They can add whatever field they want as long as it's optional. I do however have a problem with regulating what an OS is required or allowed to do and what it has to collect and expose. Linux wasn't created in the US and…

> Do you think it's a good idea for operating systems to comply with 1 or 2 exceptionally retarded state laws? The full name is as far as I know never exposed to websites right?

I think it's a good thing for OS'es to have the capability to comply with laws when it does not impose undue burden on users or developers. This is to avoid there being 40 different forks/patches of a system that would probably be less transparent than having it in the upstream project.

Whether that capability is activated should always be optional. This field is optional.

Regarding this info being exposed to websites is not up to systemd. If for example firefox were to expose this info to websites without my consent I'd support a fork of firefox or stop using firefox.

As long as the info does not leave my computer I feel it is fearmongering to call it mass surveillance.

Re: Liberated Systemd

#72

Post by dark-star »

cogman10 wrote: post #70
dark-star wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so what will keep you from just doing "sudo vim" on that config file afterwards? Right: Nothing

You're right, you can go in and reset that field. You can also patch systemd to ignore requests to update the field. Nothing stops you the individual from bypassing the law. The nasty part of the law isn't that a technically minded person can easily circumvent it. The nasty part is that you have to circumvent it and a lot of people likely won't. You circumventing it makes you stick out more than if you just leave it…

but nobody is tracking anyone yet. The API is not yet in place, in fact there isn't even any idea on how that API should look like. This will likely take a few years to finalize (if ever).

Right now this is just one more field in a database (config file), nothing more and nothing less. Claiming it's the first step to "making sudo illegal" is quite a large stretch, don't you think? If that were the case, Windows DRM, Denuvo, and all those would also have been "the first step in making sudo illegal". Remember, circumventing DRM is against the law for ages now

Re: Liberated Systemd

#73

Post by worksonmine »

SahAssar wrote: post #71
worksonmine wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have I summarized the situation correctly? No, I don't care about either. It can be argued the full name is technically useful for the system administrators on a multi-user system, but I digress. They can add whatever field they want as long as it's optional. I do however have a problem with regulating what an OS is required or allowed to do and what it has to collect and expose. Linux wasn't created in the US and…

> Do you think it's a good idea for operating systems to comply with 1 or 2 exceptionally retarded state laws? The full name is as far as I know never exposed to websites right? I think it's a good thing for OS'es to have the capability to comply with laws when it does not impose undue burden on users or developers. This is to avoid there being 40 different forks/patches of a system that would probably be less transp…

> Regarding this info being exposed to websites is not up to systemd. If for example firefox were to expose this info to websites without my consent I'd support a fork of firefox or stop using firefox.

> As long as the info does not leave my computer I feel it is fearmongering to call it mass surveillance.

You have to consider the timing and context of the change. What systemd does here is enabling Firefox to share that data (I'm guessing they'll be the last to comply though, Chrome and Safari will jump on it). If you would choose a fork of Firefox over Firefox exposing your data to websites, why are you so eagerly defending systemd exposing the same data to applications?

I tend to apply the same principles to all and react as soon as possible instead of waiting until it's too late. What use is there even of the field if it only stays on your machine, I assume you remember your own birthday?

Re: Liberated Systemd

#74

Post by Helpline9733 »

dark-star wrote: post #72
cogman10 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, you can go in and reset that field. You can also patch systemd to ignore requests to update the field. Nothing stops you the individual from bypassing the law. The nasty part of the law isn't that a technically minded person can easily circumvent it. The nasty part is that you have to circumvent it and a lot of people likely won't. You circumventing it makes you stick out more than if you just leave it…

but nobody is tracking anyone yet. The API is not yet in place, in fact there isn't even any idea on how that API should look like. This will likely take a few years to finalize (if ever). Right now this is just one more field in a database (config file), nothing more and nothing less. Claiming it's the first step to "making sudo illegal" is quite a large stretch, don't you think? If that were the case, Windows DRM,…

The FBI for years has had teams of people navigating forums and derailing discussions. The people doing this are paid. Assuming you aren't a fed, you are not paid. Respect yourself and don't do their work for free.

Re: Liberated Systemd

#75

Post by Helpline9733 »

BoredPositron wrote: post #46
duskdozer wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like OpenAI and drones, for example?

Despite the name OpenAI is not an OSS Project.

Yet OpenAI has programmers implementing integrations with military technology. Those programmers are "just following orders." Nazi Germany weaponry was not an OSS project, it still killed millions.

Re: Liberated Systemd

#76

Post by dark-star »

duskdozer wrote: post #43
BoredPositron wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the law itself not whether a software package complies with it. Let me rephrase: people like you are the real problem, rather choosing to harass software maintainers that are merely following a ridiculous law instead of harassing your government to not implement it.

"Just following orders"

guys, it's just a friggin data field in a local config file! Nothing that will end the world.

You can all come back when that supposed "law to force OSS to implement an actual age verification" is being discussed.

Otherwise, please get rid of all your knives (those are used to stab people by the thousands RIGHT NOW!) and your guns (those are used to shoot people by the thousands RIGHT NOW!) before complaining about a feature that is killing nobody

Re: Liberated Systemd

#77

Post by cindyllm »

dark-star wrote: post #76
duskdozer wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Just following orders"

guys, it's just a friggin data field in a local config file! Nothing that will end the world. You can all come back when that supposed "law to force OSS to implement an actual age verification" is being discussed. Otherwise, please get rid of all your knives (those are used to stab people by the thousands RIGHT NOW!) and your guns (those are used to shoot people by the thousands RIGHT NOW!) before complaining about a…

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