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Overcoming the friendship recession

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Re: Overcoming the friendship recession

#71

Post by johnnyanmac »

That is a low key point the author touched on but never really expanded upon.

>It could be that I had my second kid in 2024 or that 2024 marked 5 years of working remotely.

The kids vs. single divide is real, and I don't think it needs much more elaboration.

Working remotely definitely has its costs, though. There's lots of discussions these days about 3rd places, and remote work more or less removes your "second place". We don't just drop by people's houses unannounced anymore, so that leaves zero places for friendhips to naturally form post school. It's definitely one thing I miss most about an in-office job.

To coworking initiative is a nice way to get some "company", but I imagine most people will still ultimately be focusing on doing work. So it's not quite the 2nd nor 3rd place the author desires.

As for me, it's pretty straightforward: I'm underemployed and am spending any down time applying to jobs. Not much time to hang out. I'm busy trying to survive first.

Re: Overcoming the friendship recession

#72

Post by tmp10423288442 »

gausswho wrote: post #54
mettamage wrote: post #3

One thing I read on IG that one couple decided to do in NL was what they call "stoepen" ("stoep" is the Dutch word for sidewalk). They'd get some chairs to their front yard, which is connected to the sidewalk, and they'd greet people and start chatting with them. When vibes clicked they'd invite them to come sit with them, until people got in the habit of sometimes coming by and sitting with them. So there's that. Ob…

It's still common parlance in New Amsterdam (New York) today. 'Stoopin it' with friends/strangers is thankfully quite alive.

Although it unfortunately has a downscale connotation, to the point that there are racial slurs referencing it.

Re: Overcoming the friendship recession

#73

Post by johnnyanmac »

obscurette wrote: post #19

Yes, managing relationships needs time, but there is another problem I see nowadays. When I was young (I'm in my sixties), it was normal to have friends who could be very different from you. They might have had qualities you didn't like at all, but you could still be very good friends. If I look my students (highschool and college level) now, they are extremely intolerant for differences compared to what I remember f…

[flagged]

Re: Overcoming the friendship recession

#74

Post by bluefirebrand »

germinalphrase wrote: post #55
sph wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever seen those videos filming London streets in the 1970s? They are absolutely packed with groups of two or three people, not going places, but just standing there, chatting, as if they have nowhere else to be. It is something most of us have never experienced in any form and the change has happened over long enough timescales that we are used to our streets of strangers just going about their lives, the ex…

My perspective is very simple: our homes are simply a lot more comfortable than they used to be. We have better heating/air conditioning, endless television/video games/entertainment, large refrigerators, lower density, etc and so on. Back then, home covered a narrower set of needs - so the default option was to spend time elsewhere, even if it was just to escape the noise/heat/smells/smoke of home for a minute.

> our homes are simply a lot more comfortable than they used to be.

Yes. And public spaces are significantly less comfortable (and more expensive) than they used to be

Re: Overcoming the friendship recession

#75

Post by johnnyanmac »

righthand wrote: post #68
germinalphrase wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but the social norm (for a lot of young people) is not to call spontaneously - at all, ever. Giving people a heads up helps, and then consistently following through, is a step that helps make it happen.

Nah, just call them randomly and leave a message. I’m not going to have a whole social protocol for sending a phone call. If they don’t answer or call back it’s a lost cause communicating with them. I once dated someone who “didn’t just leave the house for any old outing” and it became exhausting trying to figure out the protocol for what qualified as a worthwhile outing. It was easier to just dump the person instead…

>If they don’t answer or call back it’s a lost cause communicating with them.

I mean, people are busy and schedules don't always align. Seems like the onus is on you if you expect another friend to answer whenever you feel like calling. Even with my parents we will check with each other via text before we call (being on a time zone difference doesn't help)

Re: Overcoming the friendship recession

#76

Post by johnnyanmac »

metalliqaz wrote: post #53

I have thought alot about making friends and why it's so hard. I keep coming back to the same question. In myself I find I can't seem to muster the motivation to spend enough time with someone that it would take to form a friendship. I want to have friends, but I don't care to know any of these people. I just don't like anyone that much. The question is, am I just inherently a cynical asshole? Or, has modern life don…

> Or, has modern life done something to me that it has also done to everyone else?

it's a mix of life moves and mismatched schedules, as well as some people simply being flaky. It's hard to make friends if you're always moving around for your job, and jobs are less stable than ever (be it willfully with job hops, or unwillfully with layoffs). So it happens a lot more.

And yeah, I think "flake culture" makes it harder to form gatherings when you're still forming that friendship. Some people just have other stuff in life (be it in or out of their control), but they never bother communicating it. So with that radio silence, you can't do much.

Re: Overcoming the friendship recession

#77

Post by pcthrowaway »

dangond wrote: post #32
lynx97 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember the old IRC rule? "Don't ask to ask, just ask."

"Don't ask to ask, just ask" is great in general, but if I tell someone this, I'm not trying to schedule a single call. It's more asking for permission to call whenever. Depending on who you and your friends are, it can be necessary to give this heads-up at least once so that, as another user put it, they don't get a panic attack from an unexpected phone call. As an older Gen Z, it feels like no one my age really cal…

I realize there are generational differences but I still default to the assumption that calling people whenever (outside of 10PM-7AM for non-emergencies) is fine, unless someone specifically tells me otherwise

Re: Overcoming the friendship recession

#78

Post by johnnyanmac »

hrdwdmrbl wrote: post #2

Unfortunately many people now strongly dislike receiving unexpected phone calls. You may (i have) genuinely upset some people by calling them. Yes, I’m rolling my eyes too, but that’s how they feel

For my demographic (late millenial), calls imply urgency. Like, if I see a call from a friend out of the blue I'm worried something dire happened.

Texting is fine. We can schedule a call or meetup from there. But life as is is already so spontaneous, I don't need even more stuff to come up.

Re: Overcoming the friendship recession

#79

Post by darth_avocado »

germinalphrase wrote: post #7

I would strongly encourage everyone to choose two or three friends and say “hey - I want to chat with you, but it’s hard to schedule calls. I’m just going to try calling you sometime when I have a few minutes free. If you can talk, great! If you can’t, no sweat. Sound OK?” I lowered the stakes for calling/answering/not answering, and I actually catch up with my friends more often.

> I’m just going to try calling you sometime when I have a few minutes free. If you can talk, great! If you can’t, no sweat. Sound OK?”

I do it all the time. And unfortunately this still only builds shallow relationships or keeps them alive for longer than they would. Proximity is the only thing that keeps things alive. Physical proximity is obvious, but there are other forms of proximity. Regular (almost daily) texts builds online proximity. Being financially in a similar boat brings financial proximity. Being in similar stages in life brings lifestyle proximity. The more you start drifting away (lose proximity in one or more areas), the more the relationship dies. Married people with kids who own houses rarely stay in touch with single people who are traveling the world.

Re: Overcoming the friendship recession

#80

Post by johnnyanmac »

groby_b wrote: post #23
chrisweekly wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's one of the reasons calls out of the blue are mostly reserved for emergencies in my family and friend group. Texts eliminate that factor, and are more polite. A phone call represents immediacy / urgency ("this merits interrupting whatever you might be doing right now"). A text like "hey are you free for a quick call?" lets the recipient pivot from what they're doing and engage on their terms. IMHO it's mo…

You're about one step away from sending an email to ask if you can send a text to ask if you can make a phone call. It's not "more considerate" - you can ignore a phone call the same you can ignore a text. It's merely asking other people to optimize for you convenience only. That's perfectly fine to ask for, but it doesn't help with making friendships easy.

texts and emails are asynchronous. If they want to email me to call me, sure. I'd find it weird, but it's just as accessible as a text.

>It's merely asking other people to optimize for you convenience only.

no, it's compromise. Maybe they're free right now. maybe they are swamped all day with work or errands. Calling out of the blue is asking people to optimize for my convenience.

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