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Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

theregister.com

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Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#71

Post by lokar »

Auracle wrote: post #43
stetrain wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That being said, I am in favor of in-person voting requiring proof of citizenship I think this is fine if it also then means that obtaining a qualifying ID is treated as a no-cost and highly-accessible right for all citizens. This is where such arguments tend to get stuck in the US. If you require proof of citizenship, but also have places where getting to a government office to get such an ID is difficult or expen…

Pretty much every bill that has ever been put forward for needing an ID to vote has had a provision for free IDs. That’s not where things get caught up. Also, it’s a pretty silly thing anyways. I don’t even drink and I still need my driver’s license quite a few times every year.

The current bill Trump is pushing for requires "documentary proof of citizenship ", this can actually be very hard. It means an original/certified birth certificate, as well as any subsequent name changes (mostly married women).

This is completely unnecessary.

We establish citizenship, very reliably, at time of registration. This is on of the main jobs of the registrar of voters. They have plenty of time to look up the details of the person and establish citizenship (and intentionally lying in this process is a serious crime).

We then establish identity at the time of voting, again, very reliably.

Intentional voter impersonation or voting when not eligible is vanishingly rare in the US.

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#72

Post by swiftcoder »

dolni wrote: post #49
stetrain wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That being said, I am in favor of in-person voting requiring proof of citizenship I think this is fine if it also then means that obtaining a qualifying ID is treated as a no-cost and highly-accessible right for all citizens. This is where such arguments tend to get stuck in the US. If you require proof of citizenship, but also have places where getting to a government office to get such an ID is difficult or expen…

> but also have places where getting to a government office to get such an ID is difficult or expensive Where in the US do you find it's difficult for people to get an ID? Where is it not? What percentage of the population has an ID in a place where it's difficult to get one vs somewhere it is easier? What constitutes an ID being expensive? Nearly every country in the world requires proof of citizenship to vote. How…

> Nearly every country in the world requires proof of citizenship to vote. How is the rest of the world dealing with this problem?

Most of those nations have a mandatory national ID, so everyone already has proof of citizenship. The US and UK are very much outliers in having vocal and successful resistance to the implementation of a national ID card.

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#73

Post by lokar »

orwin wrote: post #59
xvector wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the poorest people have a state ID or drivers license. You cannot get most jobs without some legal ID.

In the US, a driver license isn't a proof of citizenship. Also, state IDs are not accepted by federal agencies, so it probably wouldn't work as proof of citizenship on federal elections.

There really are not federal elections. We call them that, but they are state elections for federal office.

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#74

Post by mothballed »

delecti wrote: post #69
stetrain wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free and accessible are not the same thing. And a driver's license is not necessarily proof of citizenship.

Yep. And in fact there's been a ton of resistance for 20 years to rolling out an alternate form of driver's license which does act as proof of citizenship. See the REAL ID, which even now is only kinda a requirement to fly domestically.

.gov own court filings have argued Real ID isn't a reliable proof of citizenship and have refused to accept it as such.

  "...based on HSI Special Agent training and experience, REAL ID can be unreliable to confirm U.S. citizenship."
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.alsd.76...

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#75

Post by swiftcoder »

ritzaco wrote: post #12

I don't care how much maths and encryption you use, you can't get out of the fact that things can be anonymous (no one can know how you voted) or verifiable (people can prove that you only voted once) but not both. - Switzerland usually gets around this by knowing where everyone lives and mailing them a piece of paper 'something you have' - South Africa gets around this by putting ink on your fingernail I've read qui…

> Until we all have government-issued public keys or something

That's actually pretty common in Europe. The Spanish DNI (national identity card) has a chip these days, which gives you an authenticated key pair for accessing digital services.

In the pilot project for digital voting, that identity is only used to authenticate the user, and then an anonymous key needs generated that can be used to cast the final vote.

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#76

Post by mothballed »

swiftcoder wrote: post #72
dolni wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but also have places where getting to a government office to get such an ID is difficult or expensive Where in the US do you find it's difficult for people to get an ID? Where is it not? What percentage of the population has an ID in a place where it's difficult to get one vs somewhere it is easier? What constitutes an ID being expensive? Nearly every country in the world requires proof of citizenship to vote. How…

> Nearly every country in the world requires proof of citizenship to vote. How is the rest of the world dealing with this problem? Most of those nations have a mandatory national ID, so everyone already has proof of citizenship. The US and UK are very much outliers in having vocal and successful resistance to the implementation of a national ID card.

It's still bizarre though how this plays out in reality.

In some places like Illinois, an ID is required to exercise the rights of people but not the rights of citizens (FOID required to bear guns, but ID not required for vote).

In places like Arizona, it's the exact opposite. You can bear or conceal guns without an ID but you need an ID to vote.

Vermont is the only state I know of with any consistency on lack of ID requirements that convey non-ID citizens to also have the right of people. You can conceal guns and vote without ID.

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#77

Post by jagenabler2 »

delecti wrote: post #69
stetrain wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free and accessible are not the same thing. And a driver's license is not necessarily proof of citizenship.

Yep. And in fact there's been a ton of resistance for 20 years to rolling out an alternate form of driver's license which does act as proof of citizenship. See the REAL ID, which even now is only kinda a requirement to fly domestically.

I'm not sure where this idea that REAL ID is a form of citizenship came from. I am not a citizen and i was given a REAL ID just by proving my legal (non-immigrant) status.

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#78

Post by d1sxeyes »

Auracle wrote: post #43
stetrain wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That being said, I am in favor of in-person voting requiring proof of citizenship I think this is fine if it also then means that obtaining a qualifying ID is treated as a no-cost and highly-accessible right for all citizens. This is where such arguments tend to get stuck in the US. If you require proof of citizenship, but also have places where getting to a government office to get such an ID is difficult or expen…

Pretty much every bill that has ever been put forward for needing an ID to vote has had a provision for free IDs. That’s not where things get caught up. Also, it’s a pretty silly thing anyways. I don’t even drink and I still need my driver’s license quite a few times every year.

Even if the ID is nominally free, if I have to take a day off and pay for bus/train tickets to wait in line at some office, it’s not really free.

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#79

Post by stetrain »

mplewis9z wrote: post #70
orwin wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, a driver license isn't a proof of citizenship. Also, state IDs are not accepted by federal agencies, so it probably wouldn't work as proof of citizenship on federal elections.

Federal elections are all run by the individual states, so a state ID would be all you need.

If there is a federal law requiring proof of citizenship, as is currently being argued in Congress, a state ID would not be all you need since they are not proof of citizenship.

Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure

#80

Post by [deleted] »

palata wrote: post #10
zoobab wrote: post #6

eVoting cannot be understood and audited by normal citizens, not even by nerdy ones. It's just good for the trash.

Also e-voting can be hacked (I guess they vote from their computer/smartphone, which can be hacked from the other side of the world). The last place you want to care about phishing, IMO, is voting. Good luck hacking in-person voting or even "physical" mail voting from the other side of the world.

[deleted]
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