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2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

automobilemag.com

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Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#71

Post by zalew »

arjunnarayan wrote: post #66
zalew wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (90+% of the girls I've polled would be more impressed by a Model S than a 2-3x as expensive Ferrari) maybe in SF (or US in general, I don't know). around most of Europe flashy loud cars are still cool, fortunately.

In general, you should be careful in choosing which set of girls you want to impress.

personally I don't need material stuff to impress one.

tesla S is impressive for the technological hipster crowd, yet it's the kind of ride you won't notice in the parking lot in a few years, and you won't fool anybody - those cars aren't exactly pussy-magnets.

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#72

Post by zalew »

Adirael wrote: post #68
zalew wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (90+% of the girls I've polled would be more impressed by a Model S than a 2-3x as expensive Ferrari) maybe in SF (or US in general, I don't know). around most of Europe flashy loud cars are still cool, fortunately.

I guess it depends on the country. Rare stuff sells. Depends on the type of person too. I've lived in Marbella and there's a lot of Ferraris and really expensive cars there, almost more than normal utility cars. Now when I see a red Ferrari is like: oh nice, you've got the same car every rich guy has in the same fucking color, good for you!

I remember when Clarkson wrote about his visit to Monaco, where even the most hi-end cars are so common, that Bugatti-Lambo-Rolls owners wanted to buy on the spot the TVR Tuscan he drove by, just because nobody else had one. still, a TVR is exotic and ridiculous enough to be in demand for high-rollers. the Tesla S, while technologically cool (Fisker Karma seems more impressive IMO), doesn't fit this definition. a Tesla Roadster is probably another story.

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#73

Post by patrickgzill »

thematt wrote: post #7
patrickgzill wrote: post #4

Good for Tesla. I have seen and sat in, the Model S at their showroom in the Park Meadows Mall in Denver (well, south of Denver). It is an impressive looking car and everything just feels right. I have not driven it, however.

That screen in the center console is huge. Was it on and if so how was it to use? Looks pretty useful for mapping.

It was huge! I didn't pair my phone to it, but all the features were very cleanly laid out (you control many things, from music, web, to climate control , fan speed, etc. from it).

In trying to imagine what it would be like to use while driving, I can see that it would work just fine.

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#74

Post by kerryfalk »

001sky wrote: post #58
kalininalex wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The battery on Model S IS swappable, in fact quick-swappable, at least per Reuters ( http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/18/idUS24518959652011... )

That's cool for replacement, but the weight of these things is in the X00 kilos range. This is not swappable like a laptop battery. It may weigh up to a quarter ton. =/

Every existing shop and many auto enthusiasts can currently handle that without too much of a problem.

I'd see it as similar to a transmission swap, but more likely simpler.

The average person can't change a tire, or the small 40lb battery in their existing car. It's unlikely they'll try to change a full battery in their new electric vehicle.

As long as it can be replaced and upgraded to keep up with the battery tech, then that's all that's really needed.

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#75

Post by to3m »

kayoone wrote: post #46
salimmadjd wrote: post #31

Tesla is still a niche luxury car, and I still think they will not remain in business in their current form. Several top-name brands are hot on their heels which will put a lot of pressure in their customer acquisition prospects. As for the Automobile endorsement, I don't like how they are misleading consumers with their data. The test vs. M5 was designed to take account Tesla's sweet spot of performance, "...drag ra…

the point is to give an example how fast the Tesla really is, and it doesnt matter if its only faster in one area than a BMW M5, but the fact that it is even able to keep up with the pinnacle of pertrol performance sedans is very impressive!

The Tesla driver will probably suffer less from range anxiety, too.

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#76

Post by [deleted] »

kerryfalk wrote: post #74
001sky wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's cool for replacement, but the weight of these things is in the X00 kilos range. This is not swappable like a laptop battery. It may weigh up to a quarter ton. =/

Every existing shop and many auto enthusiasts can currently handle that without too much of a problem. I'd see it as similar to a transmission swap, but more likely simpler. The average person can't change a tire, or the small 40lb battery in their existing car. It's unlikely they'll try to change a full battery in their new electric vehicle. As long as it can be replaced and upgraded to keep up with the battery tech…

[deleted]

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#77

Post by jules »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #59
mncolinlee wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an electric car owner, I haven't found a need for swapping batteries. Consider this: if a refueling station offered battery swapping they would also need to exhaustively test your batteries to determine that they were not abused and to determine how much credit to offer for their current capacity. How does that save much time from just using a quick-charge station? Today, I have plenty of range to get to and from…

As an electric car owner, I haven't found a need for swapping batteries. Consider this: if a refueling station offered battery swapping they would also need to exhaustively test your batteries to determine that they were not abused and to determine how much credit to offer for their current capacity. How does that save much time from just using a quick-charge station? Because the batteries wouldn't have to be tested…

Unless we invent new battery technology, that prediction won't come true. There is simply not enough easily obtainable lithium in the world for the batteries. Lithium production in 2011 was 34 kilotonnes. For 50 million cars you already need ~2500 kilotonnes. So unless we can somehow increase production 70x while keeping prices low, we're going to need something else. Not to mention that at that with the total lithium reserves, we can build just 250 million cars.

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#78

Post by kerryfalk »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #43
salimmadjd wrote: post #31

Tesla is still a niche luxury car, and I still think they will not remain in business in their current form. Several top-name brands are hot on their heels which will put a lot of pressure in their customer acquisition prospects. As for the Automobile endorsement, I don't like how they are misleading consumers with their data. The test vs. M5 was designed to take account Tesla's sweet spot of performance, "...drag ra…

The M5 may beat the Tesla at 0-60 on paper (3.7 seconds vs 3.9), but in practice the Tesla will beat the M5. A 0-60 is measured from the time the car starts to move. If you measure from when the accelerator is depressed, the Tesla gains a huge advantage and will beat the M5. EDIT: Here's a 0-100 video: http://ca.autoblog.com/2012/10/09/sport-sedan-shootout-tesla... Now unless there's some tricks in the video, it's qu…

This is very strange and foreign reasoning to me. I competitively raced cars in an amateur series.

You are claiming that the Tesla's superior throttle response makes it faster 0-60. The car needs to move the weight, so measuring it from when it starts moving to when it hits the desired speed seems like a perfectly reasonable metric.

Throttle response needs to be measured separately.

The M5 comparison is more than enough to get an idea for the car's capabilities. I've never driven a Model S. I've driven several cars in the area of the M5. If the Model S is in that class, it's a beast!

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#79

Post by cletus »

The Tesla Model S is a great-looking car but, unlike some, I still don't see electric cars as being the future. Batteries are still too heavy, take too long to charge, are too expensive and require materials that in widespread use will probably become far more of a problem than fossil fuels in terms of scarcity.

Of course, there can be and no doubt will be technological innovation in this space but (IMHO) the future of personal powered transportation will still be fuel-driven.

What will change is the source of that fuel. It may be some kind of hydrogen-rich fuel (methane or ammonia) or it may be making the necessary hydrocarbons from the air and/or seawater.

Portable fuel supplies are just too convenient. The relative simplicity of the internal combustion engine (or some derivation thereof) is just too advantageous compared to even optimistic long-term alternatives.

EDIT: the amount of cognitive dissonance when it comes to electric cars is mind-boggling eg:

A: the benefits are too numerous to list

B: can you use it in an apartment?

A: no...

Or the amount of infrastructure retro-fitting that needs to happen (power to parking garages being just one). Or ignoring issues or range and recharge times. Even with swappable batteries, even if that were a thing that people would do (there are security, weight and cost issues), the recharge time is still an issue.

Power is not free. An electric vehicle still needs to get power from somewhere and that power requires all the normal transmission infrastructure.

Someone brought up what's happening in NJ but if you had an electric car you'd be even more screwed. At least now you can transport gas to people.

Seriously, out of cost, weight, range and charging time all of them need to get an order of magnitude better to even be on par with fuel-driven vehicles.

How exactly have electric vehicles "already won"?

Re: 2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S

#80

Post by danielweber »

mncolinlee wrote: post #42
CamperBob2 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a big Tesla fan, but I disagree. The only way electric cars can possibly make sense is if the batteries are swappable. The electric cars being built now are evolutionary dead ends, IMHO.

As an electric car owner, I haven't found a need for swapping batteries. Consider this: if a refueling station offered battery swapping they would also need to exhaustively test your batteries to determine that they were not abused and to determine how much credit to offer for their current capacity. How does that save much time from just using a quick-charge station? Today, I have plenty of range to get to and from…

Better Place has solved this. They lease out the batteries. You drop your old battery off and get a new battery in less time than it takes to fill up a gas tank. They can figure out how many miles you put on the battery pack in any number of ways (even live while you drive via 3G) and bill you on that.

You can also charge the battery on your own. I'd sign up for it even if they billed me the same for charge I supply or they supply.

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