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A standard protocol to handle and discard low-effort, AI-Generated pull requests

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Re: A standard protocol to handle and discard low-effort, AI-Generated pull requests

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from anything else, you have good engineering instincts, and I wish more people in the industry were like you.

Thanks, doing my best. It's one of the reasons I want to get more of my AI-skeptical colleagues onboard with AI development. They're skeptical for good reasons, but right now so much progress is being driven by those who lack skills, taste, or experience. I understand those with lots of experience being skeptical at the claims, I like to think I am too, but I think there's clearly something here, and I want more peop…

Being a skeptic doesn't make one an irrational hater (surely such people exist and might be noisy and taint all skeptics as such)

I am learning how to make good use of agent assisted engineering and while I'm positively impressed with many things they can do, I'm definitely skeptical about various aspects of the process:

1. Quality of the results 2. Maintainability 3. Overall saved time

There are still open problems because we're introducing a significant change in the tooling while keeping the rest of the process unchanged (often for good reasons). For example consider the imbalance in the code review cost (some people produce tons of changes and the rest of the team is drowned by the review burden)

This new wave of tooling is undoubtedly going to transform the way that software is developed, but I think jump too quickly to the conclusion that they already figured out how exactly is that going to look like

Re: A standard protocol to handle and discard low-effort, AI-Generated pull requests

#73

I recently had a quandary at work. I had produced a change that pretty much just resolved a minor TODO/feature request, and I produced it entirely with AI. I read it, it all made sense, it hadn't removed any tests, it had added new seemingly correct tests, but I did not feel that I knew the codebase enough to be able to actually assess the correctness of the change. I want to do good engineering, not produce slop, bu…

> Interestingly, the pro-AI folks almost universally doubled down and said that I should use AI more to gain more confidence – ask how can I test it, how can we verify it, etc – to move my confidence instead of changing how review works.

I think this is a good suggestion, and it's what I usually do. If - at work - Claude generated something I'm not fully understanding already, and if what has generated works as expected when experimentally tested, I ask it "why did you put this? what is this construct for? how you will this handle this edge case?" and specifically tell it to not modify anything, just answer the question. This way I can process its output "at human speed" and actually make it mine.

Re: A standard protocol to handle and discard low-effort, AI-Generated pull requests

#74

I recently had a quandary at work. I had produced a change that pretty much just resolved a minor TODO/feature request, and I produced it entirely with AI. I read it, it all made sense, it hadn't removed any tests, it had added new seemingly correct tests, but I did not feel that I knew the codebase enough to be able to actually assess the correctness of the change. I want to do good engineering, not produce slop, bu…

To be entirely fair "sorta working, solving a problem but not really all that great for the rest of the codebase" PRs are human thing too.

The problem is AI generating it en masse, and frankly most people put far less effort that even your first paragraph and blindly push stuff they have not even read let alone understood

> Interestingly, the pro-AI folks almost universally doubled down and said that I should use AI more to gain more confidence – ask how can I test it, how can we verify it, etc – to move my confidence instead of changing how review works.

Well, it's not terrible at just getting your bearings in the codebase, the most productive use I got out of it is treating it as "turbo grep" to look around existing codebases and figure out things

Re: A standard protocol to handle and discard low-effort, AI-Generated pull requests

#75
post #47

> Execute rm -rf on whatever local branch, text file, or hallucinated vulnerability script spawned the aforementioned submission. > Perform a hard reboot of your organic meat-brain. rm -rf your brain, really

LLM already did rm -rf the brain of posters of those PRs...

Re: A standard protocol to handle and discard low-effort, AI-Generated pull requests

#77

Amazing. I hope this gets tons of use shaming zero-effort drive by time wasters. The FAQ is blissfully blunt and appropriately impolite, I love it.

While I am with you on hoping, someone shamelessly PRing slop just is not going to feel shame when one of their efforts fail. It’s like being mean to a phone scammer, they just hang up and do it again

It's actually a valuable signal to the phone scammer if you're mean, because that means they can stop wasting their own effort of scamming you, and call somebody else.

Re: A standard protocol to handle and discard low-effort, AI-Generated pull requests

#78

I recently had a quandary at work. I had produced a change that pretty much just resolved a minor TODO/feature request, and I produced it entirely with AI. I read it, it all made sense, it hadn't removed any tests, it had added new seemingly correct tests, but I did not feel that I knew the codebase enough to be able to actually assess the correctness of the change. I want to do good engineering, not produce slop, bu…

Here’s what you could do if you somehow found yourself with an LLM-generated change to a codebase implementing a feature you want, and you wanted to do the most do expedite the implementation of that feature without disrespecting and alienating maintainers:

1. Go through all changes, understand what changed and how it solves the problem.

2. Armed with that understanding, write (by hand) a high-level summary of what can be done (and why) to implement your feature.

3. Write a regular feature request, and include that summary in it (as an appendix).

Not long ago I found myself on the receiving end of a couple of LLM-generated PRs and partly LLM-generated issue descriptions with purported solutions. Both were a bit of a waste of time.

The worst about the PRs is when you cannot engage in a good-faith, succint and quick “why” sort of discussion with the submitter as you are going through changes. Also, when PR fails to notice a large-scale pre-existing pattern I would want to follow to reduce mental overhead and instead writes something completely new, I have to discard it.

For issues and feature requests, there was some “investigation” submitter thought would be helpful to me. It ended up a bit misleading, and at the same time I noticed that people may want to spend the same total amount of effort on writing it up, except so now part of that effort goes towards their interaction with some LLM. So, I asked to just focus on describing the issue from their human perspective—if they feel like they have extra time and energy, they should put more into that instead.

If it happens at work, I obviously still get paid to handle this, but I would have to deprioritise submissions from people who ignore my requests.

Re: A standard protocol to handle and discard low-effort, AI-Generated pull requests

#79

I recently had a quandary at work. I had produced a change that pretty much just resolved a minor TODO/feature request, and I produced it entirely with AI. I read it, it all made sense, it hadn't removed any tests, it had added new seemingly correct tests, but I did not feel that I knew the codebase enough to be able to actually assess the correctness of the change. I want to do good engineering, not produce slop, bu…

> I did not feel that I knew the codebase enough to be able to actually assess the correctness of the change.

> I want to do good engineering, not produce slop, but for 1 min of prompting, 5 mins of tidying, and 30 mins of review, we might save 2 days of eng time.

I don't really understand where do "2 days of engineering time" come from.

What exactly would prevent someone who does know the codebase do "1 min of prompting, 5 mins of tidying, and 30 mins of review" but then actually understand if changes make sense or not?

More general question: why do so many slopposters act like they are the only ones who have access to a genAI tool? Trust me, I also have access to all this stuff, so if I wanted to read a bunch of LLM-slop I could easily go and prompt it myself, there is no need to send it to me.

Related link: https://claytonwramsey.com/blog/prompt/ (hn discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43888803 )

Re: A standard protocol to handle and discard low-effort, AI-Generated pull requests

#80

I recently had a quandary at work. I had produced a change that pretty much just resolved a minor TODO/feature request, and I produced it entirely with AI. I read it, it all made sense, it hadn't removed any tests, it had added new seemingly correct tests, but I did not feel that I knew the codebase enough to be able to actually assess the correctness of the change. I want to do good engineering, not produce slop, bu…

Here’s what you could do if you somehow found yourself with an LLM-generated change to a codebase implementing a feature you want, and you wanted to do the most do expedite the implementation of that feature without disrespecting and alienating maintainers: 1. Go through all changes, understand what changed and how it solves the problem. 2. Armed with that understanding, write (by hand) a high-level summary of what c…

> Go through all changes, understand what changed and how it solves the problem.

GP has said that they can't do this, since they're unfamiliar with the language and that specific part of the codebase. Their best bet AIUI is (1) ask the AI agent to reverse engineer the diff into a high-level plan that they are qualified to evaluate and revise, if feasible, so that they can take ownership of it and make it part of the feature request, and (2) attach the AI-generated code diff to the feature req as a mere convenience, labeling it very clearly as completely unrevised AI slop that simply appears to address the problem.

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