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Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

wsj.com

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Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#71

Post by simmerup »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #59
bhouston wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s smart though. If you don’t want to lose your rights to tariff refunds, don’t sell them. Would the alternative be to forbid companies from selling those rights in this case? Definitely smart, but also sure looks like an insider play / corruption / self-dealing.

The commerce secretary has no control over what the Supreme Court does. Anyone could have read the law and decided whether they thought the tariffs were legal or not.

But he does know that Trump had no plan to contest the supreme court or make new laws

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#72

Post by snowwrestler »

satvikpendem wrote: post #30

Cantor Fitzgerald, formerly led by Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick and is now run by his son, went to various companies that were affected by tariffs and bought the rights to their potential tariff refunds for 20% of the value on the expectation that it'd be struck down by the courts. Now they stand to make huge returns of 3 to 5x for being correct on that bet, while, of course, consumers get nothing. Now if this i…

Could you go into detail about what you think happened? The tariffs were public knowledge, and the suits to invalidate them were public knowledge. Are you saying you think the Supreme Court justices secretly communicated to the Commerce Secretary how they intended to rule on the case, far in advance of publishing their ruling?

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#73

Post by hermanzegerman »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #59
bhouston wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s smart though. If you don’t want to lose your rights to tariff refunds, don’t sell them. Would the alternative be to forbid companies from selling those rights in this case? Definitely smart, but also sure looks like an insider play / corruption / self-dealing.

The commerce secretary has no control over what the Supreme Court does. Anyone could have read the law and decided whether they thought the tariffs were legal or not.

The commerce secretary has in this case a huge conflict of interest in pushing for these illegal policies in the first place

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#74

Post by jkestner »

HumblyTossed wrote: post #17
just-working wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really more complicated than this. Onshoring manufacturing is something that has to be incentivized and that has positive externalities outside of dollars and cents. But some tariffs were really dumb, like on bananas. We can't grow bananas here...

> But some tariffs were really dumb, like on bananas. We can't grow bananas here... Trump and his cabinet don't understand this.

Hey, Chiquita needs to start paying for its own wars now.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#75

Post by Larrikin »

Covzire wrote: post #40
estearum wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...? No, this is the consequence of having an actual stupid person in the Oval Office and the majority party being half coerced and half committed in cultlike devotion to POTUS. Obviously the US has economic weapons. It's the largest economy in the world. If anything this signals that POTUS himself cannot wield those weapons though, and the American public, political, and business apparatuses have little appetite for…

[flagged]

2016?

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#76

Post by gruez »

jacquesm wrote: post #68
energy123 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For it to be insider trading, he would have had to have access to private information from the Supreme Court, which seems unlikely.

Why is that unlikely? It would seem to be a very easy thing to accomplish. For instance, he could just ask.

>For instance, he could just ask.

Or just pay attention to the oral arguments. The justices seemed very skeptical of the Trump administration, and betting markets reacted accordingly.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#77

Post by dtech »

WarmWash wrote: post #22

I have a few thousand dollars that I paid to a Chinese manufacturer who then used that money to pay an importer so that I could get my materials hassle free. Looks like the hassle will now be on the backend...

I work in the customs industry. What you are describing was a common scheme (DDP Incoterms) to evade the tariffs (partially), and there is a carve out of the refunds that explicitly says DDP will not be refunded. So there's s chance you get nothing back.

Also contractually you didn't pay the duties so you wouldn't get refunds.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#78

Post by jacquesm »

candiddevmike wrote: post #46
rbanffy wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe, with huge disappointment, that this level of corruption has been normalised in this administration and that nothing will come out of this.

Yea, I'm done hearing "the wheels of justice turn slowly..." bullshit. People have had their lives ruined, far quicker, for far less.

The wheels of justice don't turn at all once you reach $1B or so. Their speed is essentially inversely proportional to the net worth of the individual under scrutiny. And if you're really rich you get to buy your own laws through a thing called lobbying. So you will get even more rich.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#79

Post by lowercased »

satvikpendem wrote: post #30

Cantor Fitzgerald, formerly led by Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick and is now run by his son, went to various companies that were affected by tariffs and bought the rights to their potential tariff refunds for 20% of the value on the expectation that it'd be struck down by the courts. Now they stand to make huge returns of 3 to 5x for being correct on that bet, while, of course, consumers get nothing. Now if this i…

might not be 'insider trading' with respect to the court decision, but Lutnick had influence with the president and could affect tariffs being paid by the various companies who were squeezed in to considering selling (or actually selling) their tariff refund rights. And tariffs changed many times over months, so... looking at what companies actually sold to CF might reveal some patterns that raise eyebrows. But nothing will be done about it.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#80

Post by coldpie »

candiddevmike wrote: post #46
rbanffy wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe, with huge disappointment, that this level of corruption has been normalised in this administration and that nothing will come out of this.

Yea, I'm done hearing "the wheels of justice turn slowly..." bullshit. People have had their lives ruined, far quicker, for far less.

Life in prison for every single person working under this administration is the moderate position.
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