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Arm's Cortex X925: Reaching Desktop Performance

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Re: Arm's Cortex X925: Reaching Desktop Performance

#71

Post by drzaiusx11 »

tucnak wrote: post #27
ezst wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would only matter (to me, at least) if those Apple chips were propping up an open platform that suits my needs. As things stand today, procuring an M chip represents a commitment to the Apple software ecosystem, which Apple made abundantly clear doesn't optimize for user needs. Those marginally faster CPU cycles happen on a time scale that anyway can't offset the wasted time fighting MacOS and re-building decade…

FWIW, Apple Virtualization framework is fantastic, and Rosetta 2 is unmatched on other Arm desktops where QEMU is required. For example, you can get Vivado working on Debian guest, macOS host trivially like that.

Been using Colima to run mixed architecture container stacks in docker compose on my M3 Mac and the machine barely blinks. I get a full day running a dozen containers on a single battery charge.

Colima is backed by qemu, not Rosetta, so if Rosetta disappeared tomorrow I don't think I'd notice. I'm sure it's "better" but when the competition is "good enough" it doesn't really matter.

Re: Arm's Cortex X925: Reaching Desktop Performance

#72

Post by drzaiusx11 »

renewiltord wrote: post #31
ezst wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would only matter (to me, at least) if those Apple chips were propping up an open platform that suits my needs. As things stand today, procuring an M chip represents a commitment to the Apple software ecosystem, which Apple made abundantly clear doesn't optimize for user needs. Those marginally faster CPU cycles happen on a time scale that anyway can't offset the wasted time fighting MacOS and re-building decade…

Last time I tried, getting Linux working on Apple Silicon actually worked better than on Qualcomm ARM machine (which only support strange Windows).

Asahi Linux is fantastic these days, but as with most linuxes on laptops the power management / battery life is the worst part. If treating a laptop like a portable desktop is ok for your use case you'd be plenty happy. If you're far away from an outlet for too long however, you'll find it lacking. At least that's my experience. It's possible they eventually figure that out too...

Re: Arm's Cortex X925: Reaching Desktop Performance

#73

Post by phkahler »

xarope wrote: post #15

I can't seem to find any power draw or efficiency figures (e.g. /watts). Only found this which talks about performance-per-area (PPA) and performance-per-clock ()I assume cycle) (PPC): https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/1gvo28c/latest_ar...

Nor do they say what process it's fabricated with.

Re: Arm's Cortex X925: Reaching Desktop Performance

#74

Post by p_ing »

Orygin wrote: post #35
ezst wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.macrumors.com/2025/06/10/apple-to-phase-out-rose...

They are not phasing it out for virtualization.

Only reference I can find is:

"Starting with computers using macOS 28, Rosetta functionality will be available only for certain older, unmaintained games that rely on Intel-based frameworks."

https://support.apple.com/en-us/102527

And

"Beyond this timeframe, we will keep a subset of Rosetta functionality aimed at supporting older unmaintained gaming titles, that rely on Intel-based frameworks."

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple-silicon/abou...

Re: Arm's Cortex X925: Reaching Desktop Performance

#75

Post by drzaiusx11 »

llm_nerd wrote: post #36
pdpi wrote: post #2

Kind of weird to see an article about high-performance ARM cores without a single reference to Apple or how this hardware compares to M4 or M5 cores.

The core they're talking about was released about two years ago. nvidia stuck it on their grace blackwell (e.g. DGX Spark) as basically a coordinator on the system. Anyway, here it is in GB10 form- https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/14078585 And here is a comparable M5 in a laptop- https://browser.geekbench.com/macs/macbook-pro-14-inch-2025 M5 has about a 32% per core advantage, though the DGX obviously has a much…

Afaict the "desktop" target is meaningless these days. Desktops aren't really a thing anymore in the general sense are they? Only folks I know still hanging on to desktop hardware are gamers and even those I see going by the wayside with external video cards becoming more reliable.

"Daily driver" is probably a better term, but everyone's daily usage patterns will vary. I could do my day job with a VT100 emulator on a phone for example.

Re: Arm's Cortex X925: Reaching Desktop Performance

#76

Post by barrkel »

Incipient wrote: post #7

Without being a cpu geek, a lot of the branch prediction details go over my head, however generally a good review. I liked the detail of performance on more complex workloads where IPC can get muddy when you need more instructions. I feel these days however, for any comparison of performance, power envelope needs to be included (I realise this is dependent on the final chip)

In my view, power consumption isn't relevant to a desktop or workstation (and increasingly, desktop machines are workstations since almost everyone uses laptops instead). When I'm plugged into a wall socket, I will take performance over efficiency at every decision point. Power consumption matters to the degree that the resulting heat needs to be dissipated, and if you can't get rid of the heat fast enough, you lose performance.

Re: Arm's Cortex X925: Reaching Desktop Performance

#77

Post by GoblinSlayer »

pdpi wrote: post #48
bluGill wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you need ARM? There is nothing magic, most CPUs are an internal instruction set with a decoder on top. bad as x86 is, decoding is not the issue. they can make lower power use x86 if they want. They can also make mips or riskv chips that are good.

There's nothing special about ARM, sure. Hence "for whatever reason". Still, ARM is a known quantity, and the leading alternative to x86 for desktop CPUs. The article is titled "reaching desktop performance". We know how Apple's hardware performs on native workloads. We know how it performs emulating x86 workloads (and why). Surely "... and this is how this hardware measures up against the other guys trying to achiev…

If you know how your favorite CPUs (and you can have many, even ppc) work in desktop performance units, then you have the numbers to compare. Are you sure you can migrate from Apple?

Re: Arm's Cortex X925: Reaching Desktop Performance

#78

Post by spiderfarmer »

ezst wrote: post #38
spiderfarmer wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> represents a commitment to the Apple software ecosystem I don't see how that's holding you back from using these tools for your work anymore than using a Makita power tool with LXT battery pack.

Pretty simply because I don't want to use MacOS, its terrible window management, quirks and idiosyncrasies. In your comparison, my gripe wouldn't be about the hassle of finding 3rd-party compatible batteries, but about the daily handling of the Makita while knowing the DeWalt to be more ergonomic and better suited to my needs.

That’s not what a commitment is though. If I use a Makita because the battery life and resale value is twice that of a DeWalt, I wouldn’t say Makita is asking for a commitment to their ergonomics.

Re: Arm's Cortex X925: Reaching Desktop Performance

#79

Post by layer8 »

charcircuit wrote: post #63
amelius wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple does not produce general purpose computing parts. This is an industry blog, not a consumer oriented blog.

M4 and M5 are literally general purpose computing parts. Apple literally owns the most profitable general purpose computing platform with the iPhone.

The iPhone is anything but a general purpose computing platform. Apple actively prevents many purposes.

Re: Arm's Cortex X925: Reaching Desktop Performance

#80

Post by rayiner »

ARM designs are effectively paper launches. You get these press releases saying the new ARM matches Apple and AMD, but its years before you can buy a product with it. Google Pixels that came out in the fall are still on the X4, which was introduced in 2023. At this rate, Pixel 11 will launch with X925, which is an Apple A17/M3 tier core, when Apple is on the A20: https://wccftech.com/apple-a20-and-a20-pro-all-technological.... Outsourcing the core design creates a major lag in product availability.
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