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Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

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Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#71

Post by XCabbage »

mgfist wrote: post #65
nradov wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've got that backwards. Liquidation preferences typically go to early stage investors who receive special share classes. Those arrangements are fully disclosed to later stage investors. They knew what they were getting into and it's their own fault for making a sucker bet.

Not true (newer investors generally get seniority), but more importantly this is about common shareholders (generally employees and even founders) who never have the opportunity to get liq pref.

More importantly, employees with options are generally not sophisticated enough to realise liquidation preferences may exist and may dramatically devalue the common stock options they have, and even if they are sophisticated enough, they will often have no means to find out what liquidation preferences exist. (They theoretically have information rights that probably entitle them to that info, but companies simply find spurious excuses to refuse books and records requests, knowing no options holder is going to drop six figures on a lawsuit to exercise those information rights.)

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#72

Post by jpalawaga »

dangus wrote: post #55
mikkupikku wrote: post #5

I've been hearing buzz that the whole alcohol industry is in trouble, from a perfect storm of cultural changes that culminate in young people drinking less, and particularly drinking less in bars. With that context, it seems notable that the booze company in question here was purchased by a "beverage and medical cannabis " corp.

The craft brewing industry became over-saturated. I also think product has suffered. I seem to remember more interesting and very good beers available. Like, where did all the fabulous Gose varieties go? It seems like everything available today is a hazy IPA or a basic lager. There used to be such a breadth of flavors. The other child comments about GLP-1 is also correct. That also seems to be a source of the protein…

drinking out sucks now. it's too expensive. landlords are killing drinking out.

I love drinking craft beer. but when a single craft beer reaches up to $15 a beer, there's only so much I will partake, especially if I can have a $1 coors at home (which imo is still an expertly made product).

similarly, canned vodka sodas or malt bevages (like whiteclaw) easily hit the $10-$15/can mark at establishments. it's no wonder people don't want to drink out.

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#73

Post by giantg2 »

Y-bar wrote: post #60
IncreasePosts wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the "investment" came with perks like free beer occasionally, 15% off your tab, invite to private events, etc. Stuff you don't get when you buy a share of MSFT. In my mind if an investment comes with perks like that it's more of a donation than an investment

Family used to own stock in a local ski resort (publicly traded), all shareholders were entitled to half price on lift tickets and some other perks. It was a great way to save a bit of money, get a dividend, and have a voice on any future expansion plans at the annual meeting. Edit to add: Seems even Disney did offer perks as well to shareholders, https://www.disboards.com/threads/do-you-own-disney-stock-wh...

Is it still in business? My very limited experience makes it seem like the places that mix share ownership with discounts don't survive.

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#74

Post by general_reveal »

nradov wrote: post #62
general_reveal wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the time most of us are dead, I think we’ll have enough evidence that human systems mostly don’t work (this is a personal realization, just for ourselves, no one will be able to strip you have the realization). If it worked for you, congrats, you were lucky.

What sort of evidence are you looking for? The current general system of free-market capitalism and multiparty democracy has created an unprecedented era of prosperity for those of us lucky enough to live in (relatively) civilized countries. There are lots of problems that we need to fix but on average by almost any objective metric the situation is better than ever.

The thing about people in comfort is that they literally do not understand the concept of one too many on a fundamental level. One dollar is not enough. Similar, one person that goes without, that’s not enough either. You need millions to go without before the wrinkles even show up on some people’s faces.

“One too many” ills shatters the benchmark of “life is good”. Not good enough (that much … you may actually understand).

We have been deficient, through and through.

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#75

Post by neilv »

> About 200,000 people put money into the scheme, which offered a stake in the company, [...] But unlike the Equity for Punks' "ordinary" shareholders, TSG was given "preference shares".

Is the UK about to see public demand for investment reform?

We could use reform in the US lately. I'm not seeing many experienced people who believe in startup equity anymore, nor who are aligned with the success of the company. (Except for founders and VCs.)

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#76

Post by soperj »

nradov wrote: post #62
general_reveal wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the time most of us are dead, I think we’ll have enough evidence that human systems mostly don’t work (this is a personal realization, just for ourselves, no one will be able to strip you have the realization). If it worked for you, congrats, you were lucky.

What sort of evidence are you looking for? The current general system of free-market capitalism and multiparty democracy has created an unprecedented era of prosperity for those of us lucky enough to live in (relatively) civilized countries. There are lots of problems that we need to fix but on average by almost any objective metric the situation is better than ever.

> free-market capitalism and multiparty democracy has created an unprecedented era of prosperity

can you prove that it's free-market capitalism and multiparty democracy? because i see this opinion espoused a lot online.

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#77

Post by FreakLegion »

crmd wrote: post #44

20+ years in tech and finance and I still can’t believe liquidation preferences are legal. Even among shareholders, a group of insiders in a conference room can self-deal to keep all the money for themselves and screw common stockholders who had no representation in that room.

Without liquidation preferences BrewDog wouldn't have been able to get the investment. They may have been able to get a loan instead, but the interest would've driven them under that much faster and then the creditor, just like the preferred investor, would have priority over other shareholders.

Which isn't to say preference stacks (like debt stacks) can't get absurd when a failing company is doing anything it can to stay alive, but standard investor terms (1x liquidation preference) simply mean you're first in line to get your money back if the company is liquidated for less than the price you paid.

The self-dealing bit is generally already illegal and orthogonal to liquidation preferences.

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#78

Post by charcircuit »

medwards666 wrote: post #13
mikkupikku wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe so. But it's not just the price of booze which is the problem; other problems include online dating (meeting people is now less of a reason to go to bars), cultural apprehensions about hooking up while drunk, and cannabis providing a superior experience (at least in the US, maybe less of a factor in the UK?)

Cannabis in the UK is still illegal, so unless you're picking up weed from your local dealer, it's not a big thing outside the home. But price of booze is killing pubs here. Getting close to £8 a pint now in London. £10 for a pint of Guinness in many bars.

It's still illegal in the US too.

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#79

Post by nradov »

josefritzishere wrote: post #61
crmd wrote: post #44

20+ years in tech and finance and I still can’t believe liquidation preferences are legal. Even among shareholders, a group of insiders in a conference room can self-deal to keep all the money for themselves and screw common stockholders who had no representation in that room.

I've been screwed out of company stock at liquidation multiple times. Who decide to pay never to favor the workers.

[flagged]

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#80

Post by newsclues »

marcosdumay wrote: post #56
bix6 wrote: post #14

From the guardian: “But about 220,000 investors, who contributed £75m in crowdfunding across seven “equity for punks” rounds, could walk away with nothing.” I used to love the idea of crowdfunding but then I watched a bunch of people buy worthless common stock and get hosed over and over.

The "we invented this really cool product, but minimum production batch is 5000 unities and we need money for the tooling investment" is the right way to use crowdfunding. People get the product, or the company missed something and goes bankrupt. The "I have a software proof of concept, but I need money to make it usable" is also a good way, with a lot more certainty of outcome, but it's one that doesn't strictly req…

I always wanted “The Pilot Bay” where you could download a pilot episode or concept trailer for a movie and crowdfund it for public release
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