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Technical Excellence Is Not Enough

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Re: Technical Excellence Is Not Enough

#71

Post by quotemstr »

watwut wrote: post #66
pverheggen wrote: post #36

OP's dismissiveness of soft skills is a big red flag. Unless you're a solo dev, software development is a social activity, and understanding the social dynamics is key to effecting change. Your efforts to improve quality could be vetoed by your coworkers for a variety of reasons: they don't care, they don't trust your judgement, they see other things as a higher priority... the list goes on and on. Some of these thin…

They do not dismiss soft skills. But, they do not know how to play the politics and were given bad advice. I would even say that their observations are entirely correct, they accurately described how teams function. What they do not know is how to influence people. Bad advice given to them: > The standard advice is always "communicate better, get buy-in, frame it differently." [...] The advice for this position is al…

The point is that if you unite authority and responsibility in the same individual, you can move fast and confidently because you don't drain people's time and energy by making them "influence people". In a healthy organization, responsible people act and are held to account by their results. Democracy is a choice, not an obligation.

You're right that organizations do often become consensus-driven. It's a failure mode, not something to which we should aspire. And we certainly shouldn't tell people to deal with a shortfall of authority in an organization by becoming social slime balls that get their way through manipulating emotions and not atoms. People who advise doing this ruin good technologists by turning them into middling politicians.

"Disagree and commit" is a good thing. Escalating disagreement to a "single threaded owner" for a quick decision is a good thing. It avoids endless argumentation and aligns incentives the right way. Committees (formal or not) diffuse responsibility. Maturity is understanding that hierarchy is normal and desirable.

Re: Technical Excellence Is Not Enough

#73

Post by sgarland »

grey-area wrote: post #54
sgarland wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who thinks very much like TFA, I often write like that. I swear I'm not a bot.

Maybe fix your writing then. This is not good writing.

Neither is Vonnegut's (which your short, choppy sentences reminded me of), but he was a very successful and beloved author. I'm in no way comparing myself to Vonnegut, but my point is just because it doesn't appeal to you, it doesn't mean it isn't good.

Writing is art. Does it get the intended point across? Does it resonate with the reader? Does it make them feel something? Then it is good.

Re: Technical Excellence Is Not Enough

#74

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

Rapzid wrote: post #58
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They left for Mexico… How hard do you think it is to get cheaper developers from LatAM?

All the corporations that left Georgia over unions left for Mexico?

Not all of them M&M Mars left for Mexico, Firestone left for Alabama.

Re: Technical Excellence Is Not Enough

#75

Post by sgarland »

quotemstr wrote: post #71
watwut wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do not dismiss soft skills. But, they do not know how to play the politics and were given bad advice. I would even say that their observations are entirely correct, they accurately described how teams function. What they do not know is how to influence people. Bad advice given to them: > The standard advice is always "communicate better, get buy-in, frame it differently." [...] The advice for this position is al…

The point is that if you unite authority and responsibility in the same individual, you can move fast and confidently because you don't drain people's time and energy by making them "influence people". In a healthy organization, responsible people act and are held to account by their results. Democracy is a choice, not an obligation. You're right that organizations do often become consensus-driven. It's a failure mod…

Nailed it. I often cite Admiral Rickover (USN), who among many other things, said this:

"Responsibility is a unique concept... You may share it with others, but your portion is not diminished. You may delegate it, but it is still with you... If responsibility is rightfully yours, no evasion, or ignorance or passing the blame can shift the burden to someone else. Unless you can point your finger at the man who is responsible when something goes wrong, then you have never had anyone really responsible."

He was seen as an asshole who was difficult to work with, and while that's true, it's also true that without his leadership, it's doubtful the Navy would have launched their nuclear power program, nor would it have been as successful. He ran a dictatorship, with an absurd amount of direct reports, very little middle management, and it was wildly successful.

> "Disagree and commit" is a good thing.

> In a healthy organization, responsible people act and are held to account by their results.

The first is only true if the second is also true, but I'm sure you know that.

Re: Technical Excellence Is Not Enough

#76

Post by JCDenton2052 »

sjamaan wrote: post #62
Rapzid wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I simply cannot believe people in this post are discussing this as anything other than a complete bot job. Pure clanker vomit.

I realize it's been "written" by an LLM, but the content could have been written by someone I know. It's eerie how this person thinks exactly the same way. It's never their fault, always the others', and they are always obviously right and no amount of arguing can change their mind.

This is not a politically correct thing to say but there is a class of neurodiverse software developers who display these characteristics and I suspect the author belongs to this group.

Frankly, reminds me of Michael O'Church

Re: Technical Excellence Is Not Enough

#77

Post by sgarland »

quotemstr wrote: post #61
james_marks wrote: post #18

I find OP's communication style abrasive and off-putting, which tracks with them saying they've been coached on this, and found that advice lacking. Maybe it's still insufficient advice, but it hasn't worked for them at least in part because they haven't figured out how to apply it. From the post, I see low empathy and an air of superiority, (perhaps earned by genuinely being smarter than their peers-- doesn't make i…

> I find OP's communication style abrasive and off-putting Your comment is hilarious on a meta-level: it's an example of exactly the sort of socially-mediated gatekeeping the author of the article (machine or human, I don't care) criticizes. It is, in fact, essential to match authority and responsibility to achieve excellence in any endeavor, and it's a truth universally acknowledged that vague consensus requirements…

> Look at how much progress Python made under GVR.

Or, you know, Linus Fucking Torvalds. If you were carrying the success or failure of most of the world's digital infrastructure on your shoulders, you also might be grating to some.

Re: Technical Excellence Is Not Enough

#78

Post by sgarland »

tpoacher wrote: post #52

> Nobody disagrees with the technical argument That's a very strong foundational claim right at the start. And in my experience, a completely false one. Which makes the whole argument that follows it completely unsound. Also, the author seems to treat the terms "consensus" and "buy-in" as synonymous. They're not, and this distinction can make a huge difference in terms of healthy teams can operate. Patrick Lencioni c…

> Also, the author seems to treat the terms "consensus" and "buy-in" as synonymous.

Can you explain more? I'm not familiar with that distinction, nor that book.

EDIT: I asked ChatGPT, and it came up with this [0]. Please let me know if it's accurate (I don't necessarily dislike LLMs, I just think they're wildly oversold, and also value human input).

0: https://chatgpt.com/share/69a05ce2-95e4-8006-ae56-bd51472894...

Re: Technical Excellence Is Not Enough

#79

Post by UK-Al05 »

cess11 wrote: post #33

I suspect the author has little to no experience running a commercial organisation. Business outcome comes first, and it is only rarely aligned with technical excellence. Closing a deal might involve making an unreasonable promise, and implementing it might not require more than an ugly hack, so you go with the ugly hack and make the money. Comfort could be important but many people don't perform well when comfortabl…

Normally when you give an unreasonable promise, or have to implement ugly hack then it is known about and explicit that is what is happening. The problems come when you make a unreasonable promise, but no one knows that.

Re: Technical Excellence Is Not Enough

#80

Post by Rapzid »

sjamaan wrote: post #62
Rapzid wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I simply cannot believe people in this post are discussing this as anything other than a complete bot job. Pure clanker vomit.

I realize it's been "written" by an LLM, but the content could have been written by someone I know. It's eerie how this person thinks exactly the same way. It's never their fault, always the others', and they are always obviously right and no amount of arguing can change their mind.

"Write an essay about struggling to change a software org that doesn't want to change. Make me the hero. Post it at 1am so it looks like I was up late suffering with the burden of what I know."

This is unfortunately the world we are in now.

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