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Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

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Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#71

Post by throwaway27448 »

everdrive wrote: post #14

Marijuana legalization arguments were my first introduction to motivated reasoning. I was pretty inclined to agree that locking up non-violent drug offenders was a net-harm to society. But, the pro-legalization folks would argue patently crazy things: it cures cancer, the smoke isn't bad for you at all, there are no downsides! etc. It seemed obvious to me that you could make a more realistic argument and just stick t…

> What I ultimately learned is that in a pitched political battle, people actually damage their credibility because they're afraid to cede _any_ ground to the opposition

This could be a person making a bad argument, or it could be that the individual is the opposition trying to poison the well. Cf COINTELPRO. Largely any movement has people with insane takes, and it's impossible to tell the difference between good and bad faith actors.

That, and sometimes people just aren't trying to be persuasive at all. It's extremely rare to actually see someone persuaded about anything political without enormous amount of effort, or more realistically a change in material interests.

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#72

Post by MantisShrimp90 »

I think this is a classic case of correlation does not imply causation. As someone that has known these people, and I does smoke as an adult, I would interpret that as people who are struggling with mental illness symptoms turn to weed as an outlet. Especially when we take it with the wider literature on drug abuse and mental illness any practitioner worth their salt knows mental illness makes drug abuse more likely and yes then the two affect one another which is why rehab is usually a big part of the hospitalization process. But what I don't want to see is more moral panic so we can renew the war on drugs which as always should really be the war on poverty and mental health issues.

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#73

Post by smithoc »

AlexandrB wrote: post #50
aaomidi wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not what that person was arguing?

How so? > all legalization frameworks in the US already limit legal age of purchasing possession and consumption to 21 and over, specifically as a form of seeding ground to the opposition This plainly says that legal frameworks limit the age of consumption as a way of ceding ground to the opposition (implicitly the opposition to legalization). So I'm questioning, if there was no opposition to legalization, what would…

This seems like a lot of different people voicing different opinions and talking past each other. Roughly, I think you're jumping into the middle of a hypothetical conversation that went like this:

Person A: "It's bad that we throw people in prison for pot, and use possession of pot as a subtext under which to harass people, perform warrantless searches, etc. We should just legalize it."

Person B: "But it might be bad for children and teenagers if they get access to it"

Person A: "Okay fine, we legalize it for people over the age of 21, happy now?"

Person A could be said to have compromised or ceded-ground to person B here, even though they themselves might actually not even disagree.

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#74

Post by smithoc »

buzzerbetrayed wrote: post #49
leptons wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But, the pro-legalization folks would argue patently crazy things: it cures cancer, the smoke isn't bad for you at all, there are no downsides! etc. Using the most anecdotally crazy people you met to suggest that the pro-legalization movement is crazy, is frankly, crazy. I'm very involved in legalization and I don't know anyone that is for legalization that thinks any of those things, never even heard anyone say suc…

To be fair, the example they gave from the other side is far more fringe > When you buy weed you're supporting the same terrorism that happened on 9/11

That's not fringe at all. That was a claim made by anti-drug commercials that ran on TV across the US so frequently that it was satirized by South Park in 2002.

See the "Where did the idea come from" section here: https://southpark.cc.com/w/index.php?title=My_Future_Self_n%...

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#75

Post by joquarky »

ndr42 wrote: post #3

"But by excluding teens who were already showing mental health symptoms, the new study points to a potential causal link between cannabis use and later mental health diagnoses. Additional research is needed to understand the link fully." Hm, but this does not exclude the possibility that the being prone to mental illness comes with a little bit higher tendency to consume cannabis...

Let's not forget that many mental health "disorders" are just elaborate labels for having difficulty conforming to arbitrary cultural expectations.

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#76

Post by mrguyorama »

moi2388 wrote: post #2

What a strange study. Only less than 1% even developed these conditions. They excluded people with a mental health diagnosis, and their data for already having symptoms was having a diagnosis? Why do they assume this shows marihuana causes mental disorders, as opposed to being undiagnosed whilst already showing symptoms leads to self medication, for example? I’m sorry, but most psychology research is just so incredib…

Science has to start somewhere. Actually proving a causation is hard and expensive and usually needs to be very targeted. You need these kind of feeler studies to find promising links to target for further research.

This is why science is so much about standing on the shoulders of giants.

It is wrong for journalists to report these low rigor, survey studies as the meaningful results they always seem to report, but for some reason Women's Health can keep saying "Chocolate causes cancer actually chocolate cures cancer actually chocolate has no effect on cancer actually...." for decades and people don't stop buying it and instead insist that the scientists are the ones lying

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#77

Post by croes »

ecshafer wrote: post #19
everdrive wrote: post #14

Marijuana legalization arguments were my first introduction to motivated reasoning. I was pretty inclined to agree that locking up non-violent drug offenders was a net-harm to society. But, the pro-legalization folks would argue patently crazy things: it cures cancer, the smoke isn't bad for you at all, there are no downsides! etc. It seemed obvious to me that you could make a more realistic argument and just stick t…

I am firmly against marijuana legalization. This is partially because of this insanity of the pro-legalization arguments. When I would see friends/family that started smoking regularly become noticeably less intelligent while pro-legalization proponents would argue there are no negative side-effects, or people who were obviously compelled to smoke every day or as often as they could.... like some sort of addiction, w…

But why is alcohol legal then? It has worse side effects and more collateral damage.

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#78

Post by M95D »

vforgione wrote: post #7
ndr42 wrote: post #3

"But by excluding teens who were already showing mental health symptoms, the new study points to a potential causal link between cannabis use and later mental health diagnoses. Additional research is needed to understand the link fully." Hm, but this does not exclude the possibility that the being prone to mental illness comes with a little bit higher tendency to consume cannabis...

When I read this article the other day I had the exact same thought. Is this simply correlation, or is it causation? Is teenage usage an indicator of a possible underlying condition that hasn’t fully manifest? Is it an early form of self medication?

And the only way to tell is to randomly split teenagers into two groups: cannabis vs. control. But no parent would give consent, so we will never know.

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#79

Post by btreecat »

everdrive wrote: post #14

Marijuana legalization arguments were my first introduction to motivated reasoning. I was pretty inclined to agree that locking up non-violent drug offenders was a net-harm to society. But, the pro-legalization folks would argue patently crazy things: it cures cancer, the smoke isn't bad for you at all, there are no downsides! etc. It seemed obvious to me that you could make a more realistic argument and just stick t…

TBF, if your paraphrasing others as "curing cancer" but what they claimed is "treats cancer" then the issue may be comprehension or activite listening.

Something to consider.

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#80

Post by btreecat »

ecshafer wrote: post #19
everdrive wrote: post #14

Marijuana legalization arguments were my first introduction to motivated reasoning. I was pretty inclined to agree that locking up non-violent drug offenders was a net-harm to society. But, the pro-legalization folks would argue patently crazy things: it cures cancer, the smoke isn't bad for you at all, there are no downsides! etc. It seemed obvious to me that you could make a more realistic argument and just stick t…

I am firmly against marijuana legalization. This is partially because of this insanity of the pro-legalization arguments. When I would see friends/family that started smoking regularly become noticeably less intelligent while pro-legalization proponents would argue there are no negative side-effects, or people who were obviously compelled to smoke every day or as often as they could.... like some sort of addiction, w…

>I am firmly against marijuana legalization.

Is there an argument or data that could be presented that _would_ change your mind?

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