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The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

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Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#71

Post by modo_mario »

zenbowman wrote: post #12
edgyquant wrote: post #7

Everything is a trade off in the world. I think that people who are anti-id ignore this but for me personally it’s harder and harder to accept the trade offs of an internet without id. AI has only accelerated this, I don’t want to live in a world where the average person unknowingly interacts with bots more than other individuals and where black market actors can sway public opinion with armies of bots. I think most…

100% correct. At this point the harms to children from social media use are very well documented. Like everything else in society, there are tradeoffs here, I'm much more concerned with the damage done to children's developing brains than I am to violations of data privacy, so I'm okay with age verification, however draconian it may be.

Do you genuinely believe the major tech companies and gov reps actually want to close their addiction revenue taps?

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#72

Post by IanCal »

john_strinlai wrote: post #52
condiment wrote: post #31

We are missing accessible cryptographic infrastructure for human identity verification. For age verification specifically, the only information that services need proof of is that the users age is above a certain threshold. i.e. that the user is 14 years or older. But in order to make this determination, we see services asking for government ID (which many 14-year-olds do not have), or for invasive face scans. These…

> We are missing accessible cryptographic infrastructure for human identity verification. like most proposed solutions, this just seems overcomplicated. we don't need "accessible cryptographic infrastructure for human identity". society has had age-restricted products forever. just piggy-back on that infrastructure. 1) government makes a database of valid "over 18" unique identifiers (UUIDs) 2) government provides to…

What you’re describing is infrastructure that doesn’t necessarily exist right now for use online, and has all the privacy problems described. Why should I have to share more than required?

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#73

Post by yladiz »

egorfine wrote: post #41
condiment wrote: post #31

We are missing accessible cryptographic infrastructure for human identity verification. For age verification specifically, the only information that services need proof of is that the users age is above a certain threshold. i.e. that the user is 14 years or older. But in order to make this determination, we see services asking for government ID (which many 14-year-olds do not have), or for invasive face scans. These…

You are missing the point. They don't care whether you are 14 or not. They want your biometrics and identification. "Think of the children" is just a pretense.

In general, any government already has your information, and it's naive to think that they don't; if you pay taxes, have ever had a passport, etc. they already have all identifying information that they could need. For services, or for the government knowing what you do (which services you visit), then a zero-knowledge proof would work in this case.

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#74

Post by IanCal »

egorfine wrote: post #41
condiment wrote: post #31

We are missing accessible cryptographic infrastructure for human identity verification. For age verification specifically, the only information that services need proof of is that the users age is above a certain threshold. i.e. that the user is 14 years or older. But in order to make this determination, we see services asking for government ID (which many 14-year-olds do not have), or for invasive face scans. These…

You are missing the point. They don't care whether you are 14 or not. They want your biometrics and identification. "Think of the children" is just a pretense.

The companies don’t, and th government already has your government id.

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#75

Post by otterley »

bondarchuk wrote: post #34

It's kind of weird to me how every article on this topic here has people rushing to comment within a couple minutes with some generic "yes I too support ID checks for internet use!". Has the vibe really shifted so much among tech-literate people?

When you’re young, the overwhelming and irrepressible desire to overcome society's proscriptions to satisfy your intellectual and sexual curiosity is natural and understandable. The open Internet made that easier than ever, and I enjoyed that freedom when I was younger—though I can’t say it was totally harmless.

When you’re older and have children—especially preteens and teenagers—you want those barriers up, because you’ve seen just how fucked up some children can get after overexposure to unhealthy materials and people who want to exploit or harm them.

It’s a matter of perspective and experience. As adults age, their natural curiosity evolves into a desire to protect their children from harm.

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#76

Post by jraby3 »

bondarchuk wrote: post #34

It's kind of weird to me how every article on this topic here has people rushing to comment within a couple minutes with some generic "yes I too support ID checks for internet use!". Has the vibe really shifted so much among tech-literate people?

I used to be so against this but after the never ending cat and mouse game with my kids (especially my son) I don't think the tech crowd really appreciates how frustrating it is and how many different screens there are.

Tons of data also showing higher suicide rates, depression rates, eating disorders etc. so it's not as if there is no good side to this.

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#78

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

forgotaccount3 wrote: post #70
bondarchuk wrote: post #34

It's kind of weird to me how every article on this topic here has people rushing to comment within a couple minutes with some generic "yes I too support ID checks for internet use!". Has the vibe really shifted so much among tech-literate people?

As a tech-literate person, I'm not 100% against the concept of ID if only because I think people will be more reasonable if they weren't anonymous. This conflicts with my concerns about government crackdowns and the importance of anonymity when discussing topics that cover people who have a monopoly on violence and a tendency to use it. So it's not entirely a black/white discussion to me.

That's what I believe as well. Anons have turned the internet into an unsafe cesspit. It's the opposite of a "town square."

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#79

Post by john_strinlai »

IanCal wrote: post #72
john_strinlai wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are missing accessible cryptographic infrastructure for human identity verification. like most proposed solutions, this just seems overcomplicated. we don't need "accessible cryptographic infrastructure for human identity". society has had age-restricted products forever. just piggy-back on that infrastructure. 1) government makes a database of valid "over 18" unique identifiers (UUIDs) 2) government provides to…

What you’re describing is infrastructure that doesn’t necessarily exist right now for use online, and has all the privacy problems described. Why should I have to share more than required?

it has none of the privacy problems described, and 95% of the infrastructure exists right now (have you ever purchased smokes or alcohol?)

to go on tiktok, you enter a UUID once onto your account, and thats it. the only person that sees your id card is the store clerk that glances at the birth date and says "yep, over 18" when you are buying the "age token" or whatever you want to call it. no copies of your id are made, it cant be hacked, theres no electronics involved at all. its just like buying smokes. theres no tie between your id and the "age token" UUID you received.

theres no fanciness to it, either. itd be dead simple, low-tech, cheap to implement, quick to roll out. all of the enforcement laws already exist.

>Why should I have to share more than required?

you shouldnt. having to prove age to use the internet is super dumb. but thats the way the winds are blowing apparently. if im gonna have to prove my age to use the internet, id much rather show my id to the same guy i buy smokes from (and already show my id to) than upload my id to a bunch of random services.

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#80

Post by zobzu »

logifail wrote: post #26
zenbowman wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% correct. At this point the harms to children from social media use are very well documented. Like everything else in society, there are tradeoffs here, I'm much more concerned with the damage done to children's developing brains than I am to violations of data privacy, so I'm okay with age verification, however draconian it may be.

> At this point the harms to children from social media use are very well documented Our middle child (aged 12) has an Android phone, but it has Family Link on it. Nominally he gets 60 mins of phone time per day, but he rarely even comes close to that, according to Family Link he used it for a total of 17 minutes yesterday. One comes to the conclusion that with no social media apps, the phone just isn't that attracti…

most kids dont have parents who care to that degree.
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