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$30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

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Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#71

Post by seanmcdirmid »

jimbokun wrote: post #67
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This only works if you can isolate your society from having to compete with others. Like American kids will have to compete with Chinese kids who are learning AI in middle school, and not just “I can write a prompt” AI. But then those kids are also starting to learn calculus while our middle schools claim algebra is too advanced for 8th graders. Sigh.

The kids with the pencil and paper will outcompete the kids taught with AI.

I don’t disagree, but I think you are confused about kids learning how to use AI vs kids being taught with AI?

Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#72

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL »

anon-3988 wrote: post #49
telman17 wrote: post #11

This article tries to put the blame on laptops when the real culprit could simply be boiled down to a failure in classroom management and lack of enforcement against cell phones in class, whiny parents who rage when their children are told they can't be playing video games in class, and teachers who are using computer programs to teach the kids instead of actually teaching. Ban phones from class. For real. Lock down…

We should treat phones on kids the same we treat alchohol. "What the fuck, is that a phone? Give me that!" The only other solution involves evaporating our privacy. Fuk 'em kids. I guess they don't get to use phones, we survived, why can't they? In fact, it is probably better for them to "struggle" and figure out by themselves how to find a way to circumvent it. Make them think instead of having thoughts feed into th…

One small problem is that we used to have landlines to call friends (for chats or homeworks) and those are practically dead

Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#73

Post by nradov »

hedora wrote: post #15

I’m not convinced laptops were as big an issue as intentionally sabotaging the US educational system with things like No Child Left Behind and Common Core. Are Gen-Z folks overseas as screwed as Americans, and is there a correlation between academic performance and classroom laptops?

What specifically is wrong with Common Core math? I've seen a lot of vague complaints about it but the materials my children brought home seem fine. It's different from the way I learned but I haven't seen any compelling evidence that it's worse.

Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#74

Post by renegade-otter »

beej71 wrote: post #37
jacquesm wrote: post #22

Pretty simple solution: all tech out of schools, back to paper. There is value in being able to automate things, but there is far more value in being able to first to learn how to do stuff yourself.

> Pretty simple solution: all tech out of schools, back to paper. That'll do something, but making maximally-capable individuals probably ain't it. There's a balance to be struck here.

For sure, but let's be honest - if us adults struggle with how good Big Tech is at making the devices addictive, the young mushy brains have no change.

Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#75

Post by vjvjvjvjghv »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #40
telman17 wrote: post #11

This article tries to put the blame on laptops when the real culprit could simply be boiled down to a failure in classroom management and lack of enforcement against cell phones in class, whiny parents who rage when their children are told they can't be playing video games in class, and teachers who are using computer programs to teach the kids instead of actually teaching. Ban phones from class. For real. Lock down…

>whiny parents who rage when their children are told they can't be playing video games in class you have stats on that? It seems like an outlier. >teachers who are using computer programs to teach the kids instead of actually teaching. before laptops there were bad teachers who used books to teach the kids instead of actually teaching - as in: "read chapter 7, there will be a test!" if after laptops there is a worse…

">whiny parents who rage when their children are told they can't be playing video games in class you have stats on that? It seems like an outlier."

I know several teachers who retired because over the last decades student discipline has declined and teachers don't get support from either parents or principals. Basically teachers have no tools for discipling students while on the other hand parents demand all kinds of things from teachers but demand nothing from their kids. And principals almost always side with the parents against the teacher. It seems teaching has become an impossible task.

Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#76

Post by lr4444lr »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #40
telman17 wrote: post #11

This article tries to put the blame on laptops when the real culprit could simply be boiled down to a failure in classroom management and lack of enforcement against cell phones in class, whiny parents who rage when their children are told they can't be playing video games in class, and teachers who are using computer programs to teach the kids instead of actually teaching. Ban phones from class. For real. Lock down…

>whiny parents who rage when their children are told they can't be playing video games in class you have stats on that? It seems like an outlier. >teachers who are using computer programs to teach the kids instead of actually teaching. before laptops there were bad teachers who used books to teach the kids instead of actually teaching - as in: "read chapter 7, there will be a test!" if after laptops there is a worse…

Stats? Who do you think is buying the kids the phones and the data plans? Who is letting them take them to school in the first place?

The kids would be better off being told to read chapter 7 than play sensory overload edutainment tools that fragment their attention.

Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#77

Post by jen20 »

Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote: post #72
anon-3988 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should treat phones on kids the same we treat alchohol. "What the fuck, is that a phone? Give me that!" The only other solution involves evaporating our privacy. Fuk 'em kids. I guess they don't get to use phones, we survived, why can't they? In fact, it is probably better for them to "struggle" and figure out by themselves how to find a way to circumvent it. Make them think instead of having thoughts feed into th…

One small problem is that we used to have landlines to call friends (for chats or homeworks) and those are practically dead

Perhaps in America. Woe betide anyone in the UK who used a landline phone to call their friend before 6pm when the evening rate kicked in.

Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#78

Post by piggerl »

tzone wrote: post #33
hedora wrote: post #15

I’m not convinced laptops were as big an issue as intentionally sabotaging the US educational system with things like No Child Left Behind and Common Core. Are Gen-Z folks overseas as screwed as Americans, and is there a correlation between academic performance and classroom laptops?

Trend is pretty clear pretty much across all western countries. Even among ones that have supposedly highest quality public education like Norway, Sweden, Germany, etc... People are getting too stuck on US specific issues and missing that this is a pretty global problem.

[flagged]

Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#79

Post by iambateman »

japhyr wrote: post #16
telman17 wrote: post #11

This article tries to put the blame on laptops when the real culprit could simply be boiled down to a failure in classroom management and lack of enforcement against cell phones in class, whiny parents who rage when their children are told they can't be playing video games in class, and teachers who are using computer programs to teach the kids instead of actually teaching. Ban phones from class. For real. Lock down…

> the real culprit could simply be boiled down to a failure in classroom management and lack of enforcement against cell phones in class I was a middle school and high school math and science teacher from 1994 through 2019. I watched the advent of internet in schools, then desktop computers in classrooms, and finally smartphones in students' hands. I've lived a life of watching teachers and schools get blamed for not…

What would be better policy, in your opinion?

Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#80

Post by Miner49er »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #61
jacquesm wrote: post #22

Pretty simple solution: all tech out of schools, back to paper. There is value in being able to automate things, but there is far more value in being able to first to learn how to do stuff yourself.

This only works if you can isolate your society from having to compete with others. Like American kids will have to compete with Chinese kids who are learning AI in middle school, and not just “I can write a prompt” AI. But then those kids are also starting to learn calculus while our middle schools claim algebra is too advanced for 8th graders. Sigh.

Isn't learning to use AI just learning how to talk, read, and think coherently? Unless you mean learning to build AI or how it actually works?
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