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AI made coding more enjoyable

weberdominik.com

71–80 of 103 posts

Re: AI made coding more enjoyable

#71
post #11

Not to be that curmudgeon (who am I kidding), but it's made reviewing code very much less enjoyable, and I review more changes than I write. Engineers merrily sending fixes they barely understand (or, worse, don't think they need to understand) for the rest of us to handle, and somehow lines-of-code has become a positive metric again. How convenient!

Have you considered using an AI agent to review the code?

Re: AI made coding more enjoyable

#72
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you just have to give up ownership of the _code_ and focus on ownership of the _product_.

I don't care about the product as much as I care about the code.

Well, that's the thing. You have to shut your programmer brain off and turn on your business brain. The code never really was that important. Delivering value to end users is the important thing, at least to the people that count.

Tim Bryce, one of the foremost experts on software methodology, hated programmers and considered them deeply sad individuals who had to compensate for their mediocre intelligence and narrow thinking by gatekeeping technology and holding the rest of the company hostage to them. And, he said upper management in corporate America agreed with him.

If you place a lot of value in being a good programmer, then to the real movers and shakers in society you are at best a tool they can use to get even richer. A tool that will soon be replaced by a machine. The time has come for programmers to level up their soft skills and social standing, and focus their intelligence on the business rather than the code. It sucks but that's the reality of the AI era.

Re: AI made coding more enjoyable

#73
I agree with the author but maybe it's bad to miss the pain you get on things like "propagating one property through the system on 5 different types in multiple layers".

These kind of pain points usually indicated too much of or a wrong architecture. Being able to fee these kind of things when the clanker does the work is a thing we must think about.

Re: AI made coding more enjoyable

#74
You know what's worse than writing boilerplate, or logging code, or unit tests, or other generic, typically low value code? Reviewing it. All the supporting comments here suggest they let AI write it and you're done. This is significantly more dangerous than writing it yourself and not having a second review step; at least you had human eyes on it once.

Re: AI made coding more enjoyable

#75
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much of "good engineering practices" exist because we're trying to make it easy for humans to work with the code? Pick your favorite GoF design pattern. Is that they best way to do it for the computer or the best way to do it for the developer? I'm just making this up now, maybe it's not the greatest example; but, let's consider the "visitor" pattern. There's some framework that does a big loop and calls the visi…

LLMs have limited working memory, like humans, and most of the practices that increase human programming effectiveness increase LLM effectiveness too. In fact more so, because LLMs are goldfish that retain no mental model between runs, so the docs had better be good, abstractions tight, and coding practices consistent such that code makes sense locally and globally.

It's actually been useful for me to explain certain best practices now that I can show that the LLM cares.

Why is this name bad? Because an llm will get confused by it and di the wrong thing half the time.

Re: AI made coding more enjoyable

#76
post #32
post #11

Not to be that curmudgeon (who am I kidding), but it's made reviewing code very much less enjoyable, and I review more changes than I write. Engineers merrily sending fixes they barely understand (or, worse, don't think they need to understand) for the rest of us to handle, and somehow lines-of-code has become a positive metric again. How convenient!

It has always been my opinion (and born out by our statistics internally, when counting self-review in the form of manual testing and automated test writing) that reviewing code (to the level of catching defects) often takes more time than actually building the solution. So I have a pretty big concern that the majority of AI code generation ends up adding time to tasks than it saves because it's optimizing the cheap…

Absolutely! When you review code you need to understand the problem space, the thought process that created the code and the concrete implementation. The second step has always been hard and AI makes it a magnitude harder IMO. Writing code was never the hard part.

Re: AI made coding more enjoyable

#77
post #48
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has always been my opinion (and born out by our statistics internally, when counting self-review in the form of manual testing and automated test writing) that reviewing code (to the level of catching defects) often takes more time than actually building the solution. So I have a pretty big concern that the majority of AI code generation ends up adding time to tasks than it saves because it's optimizing the cheap…

as much as you or i may be against it, inevitably AI coding will move away from human review and toward more automated means measuring program correctness this was already happening even before AI - human review is limited, linting is limited, type checking is limited, automated testing is limited if all of these things were perfect at catching errors then we would not need tracing and observability of production sys…

But who will police the police? Does the Coast Guard* review my QA setup and tests?

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk4yyqXi8Xc

Re: AI made coding more enjoyable

#79
post #32
post #11

Not to be that curmudgeon (who am I kidding), but it's made reviewing code very much less enjoyable, and I review more changes than I write. Engineers merrily sending fixes they barely understand (or, worse, don't think they need to understand) for the rest of us to handle, and somehow lines-of-code has become a positive metric again. How convenient!

It has always been my opinion (and born out by our statistics internally, when counting self-review in the form of manual testing and automated test writing) that reviewing code (to the level of catching defects) often takes more time than actually building the solution. So I have a pretty big concern that the majority of AI code generation ends up adding time to tasks than it saves because it's optimizing the cheap…

It also screws up code smells, disguising what used to be a "this looks weird, better investigate more in-depth" structure into something easily overlooked. So you have to be on guard all the time instead of being able to rely on your experience to know what parts to spend the extra effort on.

Re: AI made coding more enjoyable

#80
post #26

I suppose, in exactly the same way instant / frozen food makes cooking more enjoyable. If it was just a chore that you had to do, and now it's faster, sure, grab that cup-o-noodles. Knock yourself out. Just don't expect to run a successful restaurant based on it.

A decade or two ago I remember an experiment where canned food was presented in a restaurant setting and people couldn't tell it apart from the hand-hooked. The presentation was what mattered, as long as it didn't look like it was canned/frozen then they thought it tasted like restaurant quality.
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