Live data from Hacker News

European Tech Alternatives

eutechmap.com

71–80 of 192 posts

Re: European Tech Alternatives

#71

European startups, when they are successful, will eventually end up being bought by Oracle or move to USA. Such is life.

The European digital scene isn't a pipeline problem; it's an institutional 'safe harbor' problem. We have world-class publicly funded research and education, and the talent, just look at the startup floor at Vivatech or WebSummit, but European Private Equity and late-stage capital remain structurally locked into 'Old Economy' models.

In Europe, valuation is still largely tied to tangible assets and steady EBITDA. This creates a massive 'Patient Capital' gap. While US investors have evolved to price the long-term unit economics of digital scaling, where high initial burn is the cost of building a global moat, European private equity remains culturally risk-averse. They prefer the predictable, incremental returns of a specialized factory over the 'winner-takes-most' volatility of digital platforms. By prioritizing collateral over code, our domestic capital is effectively subsidizing the past rather than financing the future. That's our problem.

Re: European Tech Alternatives

#72
post #46
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about European ASML? > Europe needs a single market for capital and the removal of legal barriers to extend across the continent, foremost for the little guy. ?!? You can trivially sell your software inside the EU. As for software that I use almost daily: OsmAnd. LanguageTool, which is spell-checking this message, is made in Germany. IntelliJ products are made in Czechia, and I'm using them right now.

You can sell products anywhere but you’re battling 27 different sets of rules and legislations. Look at how a burger shop becomes a continent wide franchise overnight and you’ll see how that’s impossible in the EU. We just lack the regulatory freedom and deep financial markets, access to credit, etc.

A burger shop is a hard example. Software is trivial. Distribution of goods is no harder than the US and its sales tax regime, that is different in all 50 states and can be different in each county inside that state. In EU you can use the One Stop Shop.

Re: European Tech Alternatives

#73
post #64

I don’t understand why Mistral gets so little recognition. They consistently have a top model on benchmarks such as LiveBench and their models are open source. Hugging Face is French, Black Forrest Labs (Stable Diffusion) is German, Weaviate is Dutch, Hetzner for IaasS. There’s AI here. Maybe hardware production is the bigger problem?

Iirc: mistral has American investors, black forest labs hq has been moved to silicon valley.

Re: European Tech Alternatives

#74
post #46
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about European ASML? > Europe needs a single market for capital and the removal of legal barriers to extend across the continent, foremost for the little guy. ?!? You can trivially sell your software inside the EU. As for software that I use almost daily: OsmAnd. LanguageTool, which is spell-checking this message, is made in Germany. IntelliJ products are made in Czechia, and I'm using them right now.

You can sell products anywhere but you’re battling 27 different sets of rules and legislations. Look at how a burger shop becomes a continent wide franchise overnight and you’ll see how that’s impossible in the EU. We just lack the regulatory freedom and deep financial markets, access to credit, etc.

If you're selling software that needs to _battle_ 27 different rules, then you're doing something seriously wrong.

Re: European Tech Alternatives

#75
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assumes LLMs are relevant and will be around a year from now. Let’s not forget NFTs. Your comment is also blind to the absurd amount of research and projects which are born here but later move to look for funding. So the EU is not irrelevant, on the contrary, we’re just mourning the fall of the US and transitioning to an independent future. Who would’ve though, we’d end up needing to build a copy of everything…

> That assumes LLMs are relevant and will be around a year from now. Let’s not forget NFTs. These two things are not alike. At all.

I used it as another “there was a strong tech push but ultimately we couldn’t make it work” kind of idea. With NFTs the grift was immediately visible, with LLMs it’s a bit harder, the whole “AI” facade gives people hope - I want to believe and stuff.

Re: European Tech Alternatives

#76

Over the last 20 years, Europe has become irrelevant. There is not a single European LLM on the same level as US or Chinese models. France's Mistral reached 400M in revenue, but I believe it could have been more relevant if the EU had not slowed everything down with overregulation.

I am old enough to remember variations of this conversation from 20 years ago. If you scratch, you always find ideology underneath: an antipathy for regulation that puts people before money and for sharing the cost of social safety nets. I like living in Europe. It's not perfect (what is), but it's pretty good. Living my life well vs. worrying about my country not buying enough GPUs to keep the markets excited? Choices, choices...

Re: European Tech Alternatives

#77
not all that useful. for a more useful alternative I'd prefer to see companies up from a certain size (I've noticed some small startups on the map) and if the're (not) using aws/azure/gcp/chinaCloud (whatever the names are).

Re: European Tech Alternatives

#78
post #2

“Tech alternatives” yet a good portion of the companies I randomly clicked on are software services/outsourcing, especially on the eastern side. Show me a European iPhone, European Microsoft, European Nvidia, etc. Hell, I’ll take a European one man company that can reach all 27 markets. Europe needs a single market for capital and the removal of legal barriers to extend across the continent, foremost for the little g…

Have you heard of a little company called Arm Holdings? It was a travesty that the UK government let it be sold, admittedly.

UK isn't European. They made that clear when they voted for Brexit.

Re: European Tech Alternatives

#79
post #64

I don’t understand why Mistral gets so little recognition. They consistently have a top model on benchmarks such as LiveBench and their models are open source. Hugging Face is French, Black Forrest Labs (Stable Diffusion) is German, Weaviate is Dutch, Hetzner for IaasS. There’s AI here. Maybe hardware production is the bigger problem?

Iirc: mistral has American investors, black forest labs hq has been moved to silicon valley.

That's another problem with the idea of tech sovereignity. Anything succesful, even if it started in Europe, will go global, including literally going to the USA

Re: European Tech Alternatives

#80
post #17

Every time I see an idea like this (or a politician talking about tech 'sovereignty') I feel sad for the 20-year-old me who really believed in the declaration of the independence of cyberspace. > Governments of the Industrial World, you weary giants of flesh and steel, I come from Cyberspace, the new home of Mind. On behalf of the future, I ask you of the past to leave us alone. You are not welcome among us. You have…

> I feel sad for the 20-year-old me who really believed in the declaration of the independence of cyberspace. Cyberspace depends on physical reality and everything that comes from that. Resource constraints, economics, politics, arms races, warfare, etc.

Missing on the list, but mostly part of it - human retardation. In politics, in private, everywhere.

The surplus binges of the 90s do not make for an accurate sample of human and politics nature.

Post reply on HN