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Wero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe

wero-wallet.eu

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Re: Wero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe

#71

Post by microtonal »

pbreit wrote: post #42
Freak_NL wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really simple. You're in the Netherlands, and you are going to buy something in an on-line store. Steam perhaps, or any Dutch retailer. You put the game in your Steam cart, and go to pay. You select Ideal (which Steam provides as an option), you pick your bank, and you follow the on-screen instructions (but you probably do that pretty much automatically). Usually that means scanning a QR code with your bank app…

How is that better than a card payment? Cards are accepted by far more merchants, have dispute rights, are inexpensive (in Europe) to process, supported by Apple & Google Pay, superior checkout experience, etc.

The whole flow is so much better than card purchases, where you have to enter all the data (or see your password manager's autofill fail) and then you have to go to your credit card provider's app to acknowledge the transaction.

Cards are accepted by far more merchants,

The vast majority of Dutch online transactions are done because pretty much every Dutch online shop supports it. Also many international shops through Shopify and Stripe. Many Dutch online shops do not support credit card payments. So iDEAL is the far lower friction option here. And there is no American company in between (at least for most national payments). It's great to see this system, that served us two decades by now finally get rolled out across Europe. They tried it before in the early 2010s, but the non-Dutch banks were fighting turf wars.

Re: Wero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe

#72

Post by lyu07282 »

cyberpunk wrote: post #57
drnick1 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we don’t want to have to force smartphone choices but the number of users without one these devices is so vanishingly small You are missing the point. The issue is that once the "vanishingly small" number of alternatives disappears, users will be completely trapped, and Google and Apple will then free to abuse that position of power (they already do). Worse, since power is centralized, it is very easy for governmen…

Aren’t your problems solved by carrying a bit of plastic issues by your bank? Why isn’t that enough?

We really should try to understand your mentality, if only to understand why after 27 years the EU still doesn't have a PayPal alternative.

Re: Wero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe

#73

Post by MilaM »

dadoum wrote: post #18

Can anyone explain me exactly why it is a suitable alternative to VISA and Mastercard (and why people were waiting for it). I am trying to understand the full picture here, so multiple things come to my mind. First, SEPA instant payments already exist and are really instant up to a certain amount, and I am guessing that Wero builds on top of that a sort of identity layer, to sidestep the whole IBAN thing. But it is l…

You should not be distracted by the fact that SEPA Instant payments are used as the clearing mechanism. The Wero (EPI) backend IS the payment network and provides the messaging layer between the customer's bank and the merchant. Payment processors can interface with Wero and provide payment services for merchants in much the same way as they offer credit card payments.

Re: Wero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe

#74

Post by microtonal »

cyberpunk wrote: post #65
microtonal wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true. Many European bank apps allow instant payments and work without Google's remote attestation. They typically require a locked bootloader. I am in The Netherlands, use GrapheneOS and do instant payments all the time. (GrapheneOS does support remote attestation, but the app needs to add their verified boot key fingerprints.)

Which bank? I work in this space for a large european bank and we wouldn’t be able to do this.

All Dutch banks for example? I do instant online payments and P2P payments all the time with a degoogled phone. My VISA credit card app (ICS) also works fine.

Re: Wero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe

#75

Post by hocuspocus »

nicbou wrote: post #10

Every once in a while, I check it out, and every time I am confused or disappointed. Don't we already have SEPA transfers? What benefits would this add? Why are they completely unable to pitch it to someone who's curious and receptive to the idea?

P2P transfers are just a convenient feature, using SCT Inst behind the scenes.

Pan-European payments are the bigger deal.

Re: Wero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe

#76

Post by ceronman »

pbreit wrote: post #42
Freak_NL wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really simple. You're in the Netherlands, and you are going to buy something in an on-line store. Steam perhaps, or any Dutch retailer. You put the game in your Steam cart, and go to pay. You select Ideal (which Steam provides as an option), you pick your bank, and you follow the on-screen instructions (but you probably do that pretty much automatically). Usually that means scanning a QR code with your bank app…

How is that better than a card payment? Cards are accepted by far more merchants, have dispute rights, are inexpensive (in Europe) to process, supported by Apple & Google Pay, superior checkout experience, etc.

1. Credit cards are not that common. People usually have debit cards. Those can sometimes be used online but they're not widely accepted. My debit card is Maestro, which is not accepted in many places.

2. Even with my Mastercard credit card, the process is still inconvenient. For small purchases, it's fine. But for larger ones, there is an annoying second factor authentication, I have to enter a special password, and the wait to receive an SMS.

3. Visa and Mastercard fees. Most of the time these are paid by the merchant. But sometimes the customer has to pay more if the payment method is credit card. Some places don't accept these at all.

In general iDEAL is simple, secure and convenient. Not only to pay online, but also for example for splitting a bill with friends. I'm very happy to see this being adopted more widely in Europe.

Re: Wero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe

#77

Post by amaccuish »

cyberpunk wrote: post #65
microtonal wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true. Many European bank apps allow instant payments and work without Google's remote attestation. They typically require a locked bootloader. I am in The Netherlands, use GrapheneOS and do instant payments all the time. (GrapheneOS does support remote attestation, but the app needs to add their verified boot key fingerprints.)

Which bank? I work in this space for a large european bank and we wouldn’t be able to do this.

My Volksbank app here in Germany just wants a locked boatloads and no root. Works fine with microg. It's the reason I will never move!

Though the Sparkasse is the same actually, unsure about the other german banks

Re: Wero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe

#78

Post by microtonal »

mzajc wrote: post #44
microtonal wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as it works on a degoogled Android phone I'm fine with it. Maybe someone in the supported countries with an GraphenOS or /e/OS phone can confirm? Edit: for some banks it will just forward to the bank's app. So most likely it works as long as your bank supports degoogled Android, similar to how iDEAL + Tikkie works on degoogled Android with most Dutch banks.

I should've been clearer - by Google-approved, I meant that your device has to pass Google's remote attestation scheme. From https://support.wero-wallet.eu/hc/en-us/articles/25599098295... : > I’m seeing this error message: "Your device does not meet our security requirements". > /../ If the operating system is an Android variant (also called a 'custom ROM'), such as LineageOS or Pixel Experience, then the wero app c…

It does not say anything about remote attestation, only rooted/unlocked phones. Most likely it works fine if you run GrapheneOS with a locked bootloader.

Many European banking apps work on degoogled Android like GrapheneOS or /e/OS fine, as long as you have locked the bootloader and USB debugging disabled.

Re: Wero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe

#79

Post by kgeist »

sunaookami wrote: post #31

The problems with Wero is that it needs a linked phone number and nobody can answer what happens if you link two bank accounts from different banks to the same phone number (is this even supported? Why do I NEED to link my phone number?). Also, every bank needs to manually support Wero and when you want to pay online you need to scan a QR code with your phone (yes even on your desktop) and approve it inside your bank…

Here where I live a similar thing exists for like 10 years already, and if the recepient has 2 bank accounts from different banks, then the banking app lets you choose which bank you want to send the money to. They also show the recipient's first and middle names (only the first letter of the last name is shown) to make sure you're sending money to the right person.

And I've always wondered, isn't it kind of unsafe, if someone gets my number, they can learn where I store my money and what my name is.

Dunno about the desktop, but if you're on a phone, there's often a button "open in the bank app". I actually like that you need to approve it in the banking app, it's like a single source of truth no one else but me has access to. Dunno why it would be "way slower", it's just an additional click?

Re: Wero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe

#80

Post by cyberpunk »

microtonal wrote: post #74
cyberpunk wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which bank? I work in this space for a large european bank and we wouldn’t be able to do this.

All Dutch banks for example? I do instant online payments and P2P payments all the time with a degoogled phone. My VISA credit card app (ICS) also works fine.

You mean via your banks web interface? Or via some tap to pay interface?

What i mean is can you use this to pick up a slab of beer in albert hein, or just to transfer some cash to a friend or such?

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