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11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

homolova.sk

71–80 of 120 posts

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#71
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why citizens and not permanent residents?

Are there no differences in obligations between the two (e.g., draft)?

It’s going to wildly depend on the countries, but between the UK and Ireland, no.

You do have to swear allegiance to the monarchy in the UK, which some people may feel more or less positively about.

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#72

If you're not a citizen, you can't vote for the national government. The solution: become a citizen. If you've lived somewhere long enough to lose track of your home country (legally at least), getting citizenship shouldn't be all that hard. The voting pass handed to the author to vote on someone else's behalf clearly states the requirements. A Dutch passport, ID, or driver's license is required. Polling booths are r…

but rules for citizenship are all different and are being made harder and harder because, well, that's what sells today. Also some countries (cough, Germany, cough) have incredibly stupid rules where you have to give up your own citizenship in order to get a new one.

Germany has allowed dual citizenship since June 2024.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nationality_law#Reform_...

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#73

I don't understand the argument the author makes. The author admits missing deadlines to vote in the general elections at home. The author admits missing deadlines to register for EU elections due to a recent move. I am an EU citizen, living in another EU country. I managed to vote in the most recent general elections at home. When it comes to the EU elections, I even have a choice: I could vote for MEPs in my countr…

As an European citizen, living in UK, I can vote for my borough leadership, along with general elections in my original country and European elections for my original country representatives.

The UK local elections I had to register for, I think I got a letter asking if I want to vote and had to fill in a form and every so often I need to go online and tell them nothing changed in my circumstances.

To vote for my original country, things were a bit tricky when I moved over, mostly because they were not prepared to accommodate that many people in diaspora wanting to vote (check the Romanian Elections in diaspora 2014 and 2015). Since then, we have 3 days to vote in person and we can also register to vote by mail.

/Edit: I can also vote for the mayor of London. Since I live in London.

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#74

If you're not a citizen, you can't vote for the national government. The solution: become a citizen. If you've lived somewhere long enough to lose track of your home country (legally at least), getting citizenship shouldn't be all that hard. The voting pass handed to the author to vote on someone else's behalf clearly states the requirements. A Dutch passport, ID, or driver's license is required. Polling booths are r…

but rules for citizenship are all different and are being made harder and harder because, well, that's what sells today. Also some countries (cough, Germany, cough) have incredibly stupid rules where you have to give up your own citizenship in order to get a new one.

I think it's perfectly normal to expect someone to give up their old citizenship when becoming citizen in a different country. When you become a citizen, that country is responsible for getting you out of international conflicts and arranging passports (which are essentially documents that say "you should let this person in because of the good relationship our two governments have"), and in turn you're expected to turn up for the draft and decide in national policy.

There are certainly countries where gaining citizenship is a challenge, but the Dutch terms for EU migrants the minimum requirements ("speaking the language somewhat fluently, having lived there legally for five years, filling out paperwork") aren't that difficult. Getting through the process takes effort, for sure, but it's not the challenge most people in the world will face (the "living in the country legally for five years" part, mostly; without student visas or special deals between your old government and the Dutch government, you're not likely to get a work visa as any random person on earth).

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#75
post #69
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So a permanent resident who has lived in a country, for say, 10 years? You don't think they're committed at that point and should have a right to vote on the society they are contributing to?

To throw it back at you- should a couple who have been together for 10 years be afforded the same rights as a married couple? > you don’t think they’re committed at that point and should have a right to vote in the society they are contributing to Honestly - no, I don’t. I think that voting in a GE is a huge privilege, and it should require an explicit declaration and an acceptance from the country they are part of.

I think you should look into common-law marriage. At least in Canada, living together for 2 years, means you are much closer to being married than not.

It's even applicable for taxes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law_marriage

Yes, you're not married. But you're not single either.

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citizens of Washington, DC are in the same boat. They can vote for president, but have no representation in congress.

To nitpick: they have a representative, but she's not allowed to vote.

To double nitpick: She's a delegate, not a representative. There are also non-voting members from Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, and the Northern Mariana Islands.

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#77
post #12

I’m an Irish citizen who lives in the UK. I’m entitled to vote for the upper house in Ireland (Seanad) and in both Uk and Scottish general elections due to our “special arrangement”. I have no plans to apply for citizenship, nor to leave the UK. Honestly, it’s an incredibly privileged thing to be able to do and I think of it every time I vote. I am an ardent supporter of free movement of people. I genuinely think tha…

The UK is quite liberal with who can vote in general elections allowing both Commonwealth as well as Irish citizens living in the UK). I don't think there's any harm to it and it seems unavoidable given our history. It would certainly be untenable to disallow those who do not identify as British living in Northern Ireland from voting in UK general elections.

It’s certainly an interesting quirk - it’s also not just everyone who is a commonwealth citizen, it’s everyone who is a commonwealth citizen who has a legal right to be in the UK, which is… not everyone.

The UKs history is murky and I think that the rules reflect that. I don’t think a rug pull is a good idea for existing people. Despite what I said above, having that right removed from me would feel like a huge blow, as it would be a marks change on how the relationship between Ireland and the UK is.

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#78
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the same reason that married couples enjoy privileges that dating couples do not. The long term commitment and investment in a partner indicate and confer interest in long term stability and development.

So a permanent resident who has lived in a country, for say, 10 years? You don't think they're committed at that point and should have a right to vote on the society they are contributing to?

I can vote in local elections, eg for people that spend my council tax.

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#79

As far as I know lots of EU countries don't allow double citizenship. This implies that, even when having the prerequisites, acquiring the new citizenship for the sake of voting also mean losing the old citizenship altogether. At least for me this is too much to ask. I am happy with my life in my new country of residence, but I am still very connected to my heritage. On the other hand I would be quite happy to give u…

Sorry, but this is horse droppings, there seem to be 9 countries doing this.

https://bestcitizens.com/2024/11/08/list-of-eu-countries-pro...

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#80

You may have mobility but you are not a citizen of the host country, so therefore you should not have the right to dictate their laws. You are a welcome guest until you actually become a citizen (through whatever process they define).

For Austria and Spain this would mean 10 years (at least) of not being able to vote and THEN renouncing your birth citizenship. Not sure this is a very pragmatic solution, unless the goal is to keep immigrants from voting.

The goal is to have a country not just a piece of land.
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