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Toyotas and Terrorists: "Why are ISIS's trucks better than ours?" (2023)

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Re: Toyotas and Terrorists: "Why are ISIS's trucks better than ours?" (2023)

#71

Post by fakedang »

nextos wrote: post #12
testing22321 wrote: post #5

Because the chicken tax keeps out great vehicles so the US automakers don’t have to compete. The hilux and 79 landcruiser are run of the mill workhorses in virtually every country in the world except the US and Canada. They run rings around the Tacoma and tundra. Tariffs and old world protectionism like the chicken tax are keeping the US automakers on life support, but they’re all doomed - they’re not even trying to…

AFAIK, the classic Toyota Land Cruiser (J70) has not been sold in EU for more than a decade since it doesn't comply with emission regulations. Interestingly, some are assembled in Portugal for North African and Middle East markets.

Land cruisers are almost collectors items now in the Middle East. Transcends across wealth and status. Doesn't matter if it's a middle class office worker with a large family, a soccer mom living in the Palm or a filthy rich oil sheikh with an arsenal of sports cars stored away in his garage - they all have Land Cruisers (or the Prado).

I might actually just get into the hobby of collecting Land Cruiser models, and maybe a few Japan-exclusive Toyota models.

Re: Toyotas and Terrorists: "Why are ISIS's trucks better than ours?" (2023)

#72

Post by HNisCIS »

rootusrootus wrote: post #54
avidiax wrote: post #7

While I don't think it would prevent our troops from having foreign-produced trucks in theater, we can't affordably procure such trucks thanks to the Chicken Tax. I would also guess that giving a DoD contract to Toyota for a truck that may not be registrable in the US would also face institutional resistance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax

Toyota has factories in the US where they produce pickups. They could build the Hilux here if they thought it would do well in the market.

That's the thing though, they can't, at least until the very recent advent of EVs. We used to have similar vehicles (the old 80s/90s ford ranger, tacoma, etc) but they were regulated out of existence by CAFE standards.

Even if you repealed CAFE today, the automakers have all built their entire business strategy around selling enormous expensive vehicles and generally despise producing lower cost options.

We are starting to see what appears to be the beginnings of a small pickup renaissance due to electrification but none have actually hit the market yet and trump has further stalled that progress by messing with EV subsidies and environmental standards.

Re: Toyotas and Terrorists: "Why are ISIS's trucks better than ours?" (2023)

#74

Post by netsharc »

xg15 wrote: post #31
netsharc wrote: post #17

Seems like the question is never answered. There's a lot of how the trucks get there, but not why they're better. (I skimmed it, the writing has too much emotional bait of "Look how evil they are! Don't forget, we're the good guys!"). Maybe it's survivor bias, the ones that are crap have been blown up by a Hellfire shot by a drone..

> the writing has too much emotional bait of "Look how evil they are! Don't forget, we're the good guys!" I mean, that blog seems to be an official Air Force publication. I don't find it very surprising that an army blog (of any nation's military) would stick to that nation's official narrative and not veer into larger geopolitical questions.

But talking about the narrative can be written in a neutral way ("we're fighting terrorists"), and there's trying to convince readers (and maybe themselves) that they are as noble as the crusaders. Sad if you don't understand the difference.

Re: Toyotas and Terrorists: "Why are ISIS's trucks better than ours?" (2023)

#75

Post by HNisCIS »

mywittyname wrote: post #60
taniks1618 wrote: post #2

I wish it was easy and simple to buy the Hilux in America. Many amazing foreign vehicles have been banned or heavily taxed by the Federal Government to prevent competition.

The Hilux isn't "banned" from the USA. Toyota can federalize it and sell it here at any time. Toyota doesn't bring it here because we have the Tacoma - a truck designed to be more inline with American consumer tastes. If Toyota wanted to, they could readily start manufacturing Hiluxes in Mexico and importing them into the USA. Presumably, the reason they don't do this is because Americans hate small pickup trucks. Ev…

They can't produce them here because of CAFE.

Re: Toyotas and Terrorists: "Why are ISIS's trucks better than ours?" (2023)

#76

Post by cucumber3732842 »

londons_explore wrote: post #35

Stories like this always seem one-sided. Can't a journalist or researcher find at least one person on the other side from back when this was done in ~2012 and interview them? Sure, many will be reluctant to talk, and Afghanistan isn't exactly a stable place right now, but all it would take is a phone call to the right people...

>Stories like this always seem one-sided.

Nuanced "it's complicated" takes don't gain traction.

Confirm the audience's biases and it's straight to the top.

Re: Toyotas and Terrorists: "Why are ISIS's trucks better than ours?" (2023)

#77

Post by Amezarak »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #48
taniks1618 wrote: post #2

I wish it was easy and simple to buy the Hilux in America. Many amazing foreign vehicles have been banned or heavily taxed by the Federal Government to prevent competition.

Imagine how much nicer driving around in the suburbs would be if the majority of vehicles were town cars like Honda Fits, mini-mini-vans like Honda Freed, pre-2003 Tacomas, and kei trucks/vans instead of the usual mix of unreasonably tall and boxy crossovers/SUVs and brodozer trucks.

I think you probably know this because you used the US name for the car (internationally known as the Jazz), but for those who don’t, Honda discontinued the Fit in the US market due to poor sales. For every internet comment bemoaning the lack of these vehicles there’s the actual fact of revealed consumer preference in the US market.

Re: Toyotas and Terrorists: "Why are ISIS's trucks better than ours?" (2023)

#78

Post by zdragnar »

HNisCIS wrote: post #72
rootusrootus wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota has factories in the US where they produce pickups. They could build the Hilux here if they thought it would do well in the market.

That's the thing though, they can't, at least until the very recent advent of EVs. We used to have similar vehicles (the old 80s/90s ford ranger, tacoma, etc) but they were regulated out of existence by CAFE standards. Even if you repealed CAFE today, the automakers have all built their entire business strategy around selling enormous expensive vehicles and generally despise producing lower cost options. We are start…

They are massive because of the cafe standards. There's plenty enough of a market for smaller trucks, even the Ford Maverick which is closer to a car with a bed sold out immediately.

I like my big truck but when it dies, if there's a small truck available that lets me plow snow and tow logs in the forest, I'll get it.

Re: Toyotas and Terrorists: "Why are ISIS's trucks better than ours?" (2023)

#79

Post by jaredklewis »

ericmay wrote: post #65
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine how much nicer driving around in the suburbs would be if the majority of vehicles were town cars like Honda Fits, mini-mini-vans like Honda Freed, pre-2003 Tacomas, and kei trucks/vans instead of the usual mix of unreasonably tall and boxy crossovers/SUVs and brodozer trucks.

Well I don't think it would be that much different, truthfully. The problem of the suburbs is a matter of layout and zoning, not so much the vehicles used. If you fix the layout and zoning it'll naturally reduce vehicle size.

Would better zoning have a bigger impact? Of course.

But it would definitely make an impact. If you are driving a Honda fit, there is no distance at which you can’t see my kids.

In a ford f-150, the driver probably needs to be at least a dozen feet away to see my kids

Re: Toyotas and Terrorists: "Why are ISIS's trucks better than ours?" (2023)

#80

Post by thatcat »

HNisCIS wrote: post #68
avidiax wrote: post #7

While I don't think it would prevent our troops from having foreign-produced trucks in theater, we can't affordably procure such trucks thanks to the Chicken Tax. I would also guess that giving a DoD contract to Toyota for a truck that may not be registrable in the US would also face institutional resistance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax

Also, because of CAFE standards, the US can't even attempt to create its own competing light trucks as everything needs to be fucking massive to maintain the emission exemptions. The thinking was it would make cars more efficient but instead everyone just built obscenely large vehicles that were classified as trucks instead of passenger vehicles.

CAFE stopped being enforced in 2022 and don't apply going forward.
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