The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars • Hacker News Board

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#71

Post by forgottenpaswrd » Mon, Oct 22, 2012, 9:40 PM UTC

sbierwagen wrote: post #56

wmf wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Free long distance travel" obviously means B. It's not like this is a secret.

It's tapdancing on the line between "creative wording" and "outright deception". They frontload the FREE CHARGING FOREVER part, then lightly skip over the fact that a Model S owner is still going to be spending a whole lot of money on power. (Gasoline is going to get more expensive. So is electricity! Until we figure out how to paint solar cells on flat surfaces, energy will never again be as cheap as it is right now…

"Until we figure out how to paint solar cells on flat surfaces, energy will never again be as cheap as it is right now."

Oh, really?

What about natural gas, hydrated methane and the most important of all, nuclear fusion energy?

The universe is filled with billions of billions of billions of stars, it is not that fusion energy does not work, we only have to control it and we will.

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#72

Post by CamperBob2 » Mon, Oct 22, 2012, 9:42 PM UTC

salimmadjd wrote: post #26

I admire Musk and tesla. However, I see two paths for them and none are good. A - fully-electric cars are still too early and will get crushed by hybrids or more efficient diesel/fossil fuel cars. Tesla becomes irrelevent. B - fully-electric is all the rage, and every brand will have one. Tesla will become the victims of their own success. I'm going to assume many of you are going to disagree with me. Mainly because…

I'm going to assume many of you are going to disagree with me. Mainly because we come from a world with a much different customer acquisition models.

I don't disagree with path A, but the fact is, path B (and Musk's prediction that half of all cars sold will be full electric by 2032) can't possibly happen with our current power distribution system in place.

The only conceivable way that electric cars are going to take over will be if the government steps in and mandates universal form factors for swappable batteries that can be charged at advantageous times and locations and made available to drivers when and where they're needed. Any other approach to electric cars is simply stupid, and I can't begin to imagine why someone like Musk doesn't grasp that.

I speak as someone in the market for a new moderately-high-end car who would love to support Tesla... if only the whole idea wasn't so hopelessly wrong from an engineering standpoint.

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#73

Post by toomuchtodo » Mon, Oct 22, 2012, 9:49 PM UTC

tadfisher wrote: post #49

tocomment wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually if the fee is just a filter, they could refund your money if you buy any car in the next say 6 months. That way it's less of an obstacle for potential buyers but still filters out non-buyers.

What if you, by some affliction unimaginable, actually don't like the car? Is it worth $300 to determine that?

I've paid $3K to rent an Audi R8 for the weekend. I currently have a Model S reservation. I'm cool with paying $300 to see if I want to spend $80K on a car (0.00375% of the value of the vehicle).

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#74

Post by protomyth » Mon, Oct 22, 2012, 9:53 PM UTC

sbierwagen wrote: post #23

In case your eye skipped over the “for free” part, I would like to emphasize that again – owning a Supercharger enabled Model S really does mean free long distance travel forever on our high speed charging network. I really wish they'd stop saying this. They're essentially committing to building a nationwide electric car charging infrastructure for $nodollars, and never charging customers to use it, ever. Which means…

I will guarantee it will not be free once electric cars get a bit more popular and legislators need money for roads. These charging stations provide a convenient venue for taxes.

I would also imagine some bill will show up asking electric companies to tax home charging stations separately.

Given the tax implications, I would also bet the 110v plug-ins will be made illegal for electric cars for "safety" reason ("safety of a state's road tax revenue").

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#75

Post by toomuchtodo » Mon, Oct 22, 2012, 9:55 PM UTC

run4yourlives wrote: post #48

Gring wrote: post #16

"The Product Specialists (...) goal and the sole metric of their success is to have you enjoy the experience of visiting so much that you look forward to returning again." This is not the experience I had. Walked into a Tesla store, said I want to test drive a Roadster. Salesman went into that profiling mode that all car salesmen do constantly and no customer likes, asking me all kinds of questions to find out how mu…

Can you actually afford a Tesla? Honestly? And if the answer is no, would you want someone you pay good money to spending time with someone that doesn't have the means to actually buy the product instead of a person who does?

I'm a Model S reservation holder and a TSLA stock owner. I'm perfectly fine with TSLA charging for test drives.

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#76

Post by refurb » Mon, Oct 22, 2012, 9:58 PM UTC

OldSchool wrote: post #46

3825 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have to pay that fee even if you self-list on mls? I thought it was only a flat fee if you went that route. (I've never sold a house so this is from stuff I've heard)

I've only ever sold a few properties myself but as I understand it, yes you can discount-list or even flat-fee list a property but the agent that represents the buyer typically still expects to get 3% from you. It has amazed me that we have been in a technological age for a long time now where buyers can pre-select what they want to see and don't need more than someone to open the door for them at a property, and sel…

My understanding is that one the big $ houses, $1M+, they don't typically go with a 6% fee, but rather have a "6% on the first $500K, then 1% thereafter".

It makes sense if you think about it, in San Francisco, many neighborhoods have 80% of the houses priced close to $2M (i.e. these are not atypical homes). If everyone stuck to the 6%, then agents would be getting $60K for each house sold (I know they give up some of that to the brand they work for).

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#77

Post by fijal » Mon, Oct 22, 2012, 10:02 PM UTC

rikf wrote: post #68

sbierwagen wrote: post #23

In case your eye skipped over the “for free” part, I would like to emphasize that again – owning a Supercharger enabled Model S really does mean free long distance travel forever on our high speed charging network. I really wish they'd stop saying this. They're essentially committing to building a nationwide electric car charging infrastructure for $nodollars, and never charging customers to use it, ever. Which means…

Dont forget that even traditional gas stations make most of their profit from convenience store/restaurants.

I would actually be very interested in a citation for this.

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#78

Post by howeyc » Mon, Oct 22, 2012, 10:06 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #45

salimmadjd wrote: post #26

I admire Musk and tesla. However, I see two paths for them and none are good. A - fully-electric cars are still too early and will get crushed by hybrids or more efficient diesel/fossil fuel cars. Tesla becomes irrelevent. B - fully-electric is all the rage, and every brand will have one. Tesla will become the victims of their own success. I'm going to assume many of you are going to disagree with me. Mainly because…

What are your thoughts on: C - full-electric is the rage, every brand has one and Tesla remains the 'premium' brand ? My thinking is that the new vehicle market is quite large, and Tesla, as an early mover, has a great advantage relative to the other manufacturers. Their disadvantage is that they aren't as well capitalized. Their lack of working capital will kill them if they have to pivot very far from their current…

> Further if they start today it will be 24 months before they can launch something.

You are assuming other companies have not yet started building electric cars. This is extremely false. I was at the Detroit Auto Show in Jan 2011 and saw Ford driving a fully-electric Fusion around the showroom floor.

Tesla certainly appears to be ahead publicly, but I'm not so sure that's the case.

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#79

Post by sbierwagen » Mon, Oct 22, 2012, 10:10 PM UTC

fijal wrote: post #77

rikf wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dont forget that even traditional gas stations make most of their profit from convenience store/restaurants.

I would actually be very interested in a citation for this.

The original quote is true, but he misphrased it.

The convenience store attached to a gas station is very profitable (huge markups on cheap food) but has relatively little revenue. The gasoline is not very profitable (razor thin margins due to competing with, essentially, everyone) but brings in a lot of revenue. (Every customer at a gas station buys gas)

The convenience store is the most profitable part, but that doesn't mean you can get rid of the gas pumps and just sell five dollar bottles of Coke.

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#80

Post by SeanLuke » Mon, Oct 22, 2012, 10:10 PM UTC

sbierwagen wrote: post #23

In case your eye skipped over the “for free” part, I would like to emphasize that again – owning a Supercharger enabled Model S really does mean free long distance travel forever on our high speed charging network. I really wish they'd stop saying this. They're essentially committing to building a nationwide electric car charging infrastructure for $nodollars, and never charging customers to use it, ever. Which means…

Probably neither A nor B. The total electricity cost over the lifetime of a Tesla Model S is surprisingly small, so small that it can effectively rolled into the price of the vehicle itself. In fact this is one of the problems with current electric vehicles: the battery alone may cost more than all the electricity you'd use to charge it over its lifetime.

Additionally they can certainly recoup costs on charging non-Tesla cars.