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How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

nytimes.com

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Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#71

Post by kreetx »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #63
kreetx wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These people just haven't been convicted - yet . Of course, you might say "not guilty until proven otherwise", which is true. But they are in the US illegally anyway.

Edit 2: Before reading on don't bother, this person isn't American so has no understanding of what the words they are typing mean in the American system, that immigration judges aren't Article III criminal judges, that immigration violations are civil violations not criminal, etc. Being honest/truthful really doesn't matter to you folks, does it? You made a claim that was bullshit to try and sway people. And are will…

Isn't "due process" for an illegal immigrant already happened in the sense that they are determined to be an illegal?

Trump had deporting illegals in his campaign and got mandate from the people. You don't seem to believe in democracy instead.

Edit: The note about pending charges is just a note. Trump's platform was to deport all illegal immigrants, not only who have been convicted of other crimes as well (they did start with the convicted though). You don't need to waste time, but you need to be able to point to where the bad faith arguments and word spinning are. To me it looks like the democrats are mobilizing those who don't quite understand what losing an election means in a democratic country. If your view is that American system is something else, e.g, "only what the Democratic wants to do should be done", then you would need to push this through your system.

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#72

Post by mc32 »

Jtsummers wrote: post #69
mc32 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The subject is people who entered illegally or have remained past their visas. Illegal aliens under federal law. Outside of kooks, no one wants to deport legal residents. They may want to limit some form of migration but that’s not the question and that’s not what ICE are concerned with. It’s not even in their scope in any way.

> Outside of kooks, no one wants to deport legal residents. I agree, but that's not what you wrote in your original comment and were asked to defend and then failed to defend. You claimed that 60% of the population wants all aliens deported. The word "all" there means your claim included legal residents. Now you're backpedaling, I guess.

If you read further down you see I reference illegal aliens. Thats the jist.

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#73

Post by kreetx »

JayNitram wrote: post #66
kreetx wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've read, there was some kind of community watch and/or protest going on for ICE there, patrol cars, etc. But you're saying she had the suspicion that a few masked thugs had accidentally gotten lost within the police operation?

We are too far past the fascist crap too entertain this stupidity. I get it, you don't see a problem with any of it. Now go enjoy your dumb little life and I am going to go back trying to find ways to help make friends and family I have in the Minneapolis area feel safe again.

Everything is more nuanced than your all-or-nothing any of it designation.

You say that there was no getaway performed and the person trying to drive away wasn't aware that it was law enforcement that had ordered her to stay. Sure, she didn't deserve to die. But if you charge towards an officer, or reasonably appear to do so, then these things happen. Why didn't she peacefully stay put instead?

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#74

Post by scarecrowbob »

bartholemew1 wrote: post #8

[flagged]

You might not be aware of it. It was there though. I had friends going to support families in detention in San Antonio in 2010/11.

Consider that it might be possible you're the one who is actually ignoring stuff based on a political position? And that rather than ignoring it on a Dem/GOP line, the line is between "normal, real adult electoral politics" and all the folks actually doing work to oppose these evil things directly.

A lot of my Democrat-voting friend easily forget Standing Rock or Furguson, but I doubt the people who were there do. By the same token, those same things have oft been forgotten or dismissed by the GOP-identifying friends of mine.

The problem is once you start opening a history book (that's not, say, published for teaching children in Texas) it gets really hard to thing to say "the law is static and started 15 years ago" or even "it's a law so it has ethical weight", and those things are hard to track for most folks and the implications are almost traumatic.

I get that your question is real and a struggle, because that's how it is for many folks in my life, well-intentioned and smart folks who were raised in a system that didn't seem like a problem to them because it fit them well enough, or they were so circumcised by it at an early age that they don't even notice what they've been cut away from.

But for a lot of us, the fact that a bunch of yall got together and decided to vote on who to kick out of the places where we live doesn't hae a lot of moral ethical weight.

Consider that one reason half the folks in the us don't vote is because we know that neither side is going to do anything resembling a good outcome and signing our names to things we don't agree with isn't just a lie but makes us complicit in our own expolitation.

And as yall have gotten ever more violent in practicng yalls "democratically produced" decision, those of us who have, like, an actual moral position are moving ever close to emulating John Brown.

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#75

Post by mindslight »

kreetx wrote: post #57
andrewjf wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Propaganda. The actual videos do not support this conclusion at all. You’re being lied to.

I've seen the actual videos. While tragic, then she was trying to drive away, not obeying the approaching officer's orders. At that moment, the officer towards she was driving was the one that shot her. It also seemed that right before the event she was doing some kind of traffic regulation there which is why the officers approached her.

You can't start at the point the ICE agent had already set up his pretext to execute her. That's equivalent to equating legality with morality, which doesn't work when talking about what ought to be. Rather you have to examine the entire situation, which was an extreme escalation by ICE in response to what was essentially protesting.

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#76

Post by Jtsummers »

mc32 wrote: post #72
Jtsummers wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Outside of kooks, no one wants to deport legal residents. I agree, but that's not what you wrote in your original comment and were asked to defend and then failed to defend. You claimed that 60% of the population wants all aliens deported. The word "all" there means your claim included legal residents. Now you're backpedaling, I guess.

If you read further down you see I reference illegal aliens. Thats the jist.

That's not what you wrote, though. You wrote:

> ~60-ish percent of the pop want all aliens deported not only criminal aliens

That statement covers both illegal and legal aliens. Do you not know what the words you wrote mean? Why are you lying about your words that are plainly visible on this page if you do know what they mean?

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#77

Post by Amezarak »

dyauspitr wrote: post #65
Amezarak wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obama actually pioneered non-judicial deportations. Under his administration, 75% of removals took place without the established immigration hearing process. Many (most?) ICE deportations taking place today are after "due process" "judicial" hearings, that is, a final order of removal being issued by an immigration "judge." This is generally ignored by news reporting. https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/speed…

You seem to conveniently ignore the 4th amendment violations and the ignored court orders. Obama had “fast-track” deportations but also convenient ignore that this administration is doing it under the aliens enemies act which is a wartime authorization and most importantly deporting people to “third” countries.

What fourth amendment violations do you think are unprecedented?

The Alien Enemies Act is one of our oldest laws and was passed by John Adams during peacetime to suppress perceived foreign influence from migrants.

Deportations to third countries are pretty clearly the only solution to cases where immigrants have a final order of removal that has been suspended due to problems in their home country, or where their home country refuses to accept them; the alternative of leaving them in a perpetual limbo is absurd. What else would you do?

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#78

Post by quickthrowman »

Amezarak wrote: post #61
postflopclarity wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Indeed, you can safely strike the word "unprecendented" from almost all journalism "Border patrol murders unarmed subdued citizen in broad daylight on film and then lies about it" I think is pretty unprecedented. at least as far as I know. > Many (most?) ICE deportations taking place today are after "due process" "judicial" hearings CITATION NEEDED.

There’s more than a thousand fatal US police shootings every year with various levels of justification, many impacting people totally innocent of anything, even if we accept your propagandized mischaracterization of what happened. (I don’t blame you for this. It’s being pushed hard, and the other sides propaganda is no more truthful.) Aside from regular shootings, Obama (perhaps not so famously) killed a 16 year old…

> There’s more than a thousand fatal US police shootings every year with various levels of justification, many impacting people totally innocent of anything, even if we accept your propagandized mischaracterization of what happened. (I don’t blame you for this. It’s being pushed hard, and the other sides propaganda is no more truthful.)

What usually happens when a municipal, county, or state law enforcement officer (and until recently, federal) kills someone in the line of duty?

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#79

Post by Herring »

The problem with these threads is everybody wants to complain about Trump, but nobody wants to talk about policies that actually help buffer against the far-right. Eg implementing robust safety nets and low inequality, to reduce status anxiety and grievance. How many of you software engineers want to sign up for European-style welfare states and pay for them with high taxes? It's basically tragedy of the commons.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/10/welfare-cuts...

Economics on its own is probably not sufficient either. You probably also need widespread unionization, a Cordon Sanitaire, and probably German-style intelligence surveillance of the far-right too.

Edit: Looking at the comments below you also need a MUCH better education system. FYI 99% of the time immigration is great for the economy, which is why the US has been wholesale accepting immigrants for a very long time.

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#80

Post by kreetx »

mindslight wrote: post #75
kreetx wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the actual videos. While tragic, then she was trying to drive away, not obeying the approaching officer's orders. At that moment, the officer towards she was driving was the one that shot her. It also seemed that right before the event she was doing some kind of traffic regulation there which is why the officers approached her.

You can't start at the point the ICE agent had already set up his pretext to execute her. That's equivalent to equating legality with morality, which doesn't work when talking about what ought to be. Rather you have to examine the entire situation, which was an extreme escalation by ICE in response to what was essentially protesting.

There was no pretext to execute her. It's when she started driving (even spun the wheels I think) towards the officer were shots fired. In your mind, does police getaway equate with protesting now?
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