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The world of Japanese snack bars

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Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#71

Post by Nursie »

Rodeoclash wrote: post #61
scottyah wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It truly is, I recently read a great article about the coffee shops being run out of a room in people's homes- I would love to sell coffee out of my garage for a few hours before work.

Compared to Australia where the government attempts to plan and control every aspect of commercial business, Japan's laws are a real breath of fresh air. Melbourne's had laws so strict that they've done a bang up job of ruining the local live music scene. Minimum numbers of bouncers, licenses that don't extend past midnight. Our big dance parties have been shifting the start times earlier and earlier because of absur…

> Melbourne's had laws so strict that they've done a bang up job of ruining the local live music scene.

And Perth ... the zoning here seems to work in a way that suburbs don't get shops, restaurants and bars integrated into them at all. Daycare centres are bloody everywhere, apparently they are really big business, but there's no community pub anywhere round here. Contrast to the UK where pubs are just sorta interspersed with houses in a lot of places.

People say one of the reasons Perth has fewer pubs is because we don't have the pokies so can't support so many, but I think it's also because poor planning has made it a real effort to get to one.

Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#73

Post by smelendez »

NalNezumi wrote: post #26

My British friend that lived in Kyoto had his favorite snac bar. He was accepted as a local and even had a whiskey bottle saved for him (privilege for the regulars!) Another snac bar that he brought me to had an interesting story. The snac bar was in an apartment complex (due to Japan's funny zoning laws) at the nightlife district, could maybe fit 5-6 max. The place was filled with blues and jazz LPs! When we went th…

> That 10+ tall loud white people was ruining the third place this bar represented to the locals.

I could easily see this being an issue in a lot of smaller US bars.

A group of 10+ loud university students coming into a sleepy storefront bar may not be doing anything wrong per se but they can completely change the atmosphere for the regulars.

Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#74

Post by shimman »

scottyah wrote: post #56
crooked-v wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> due to Japan's funny zoning laws Way better than what we have here in the US. For those not familiar with them, the gist is that Japanese zoning defines what's basically a maximum nuisance level (from low-density residential, up to various levels of commercial operation, up to heavy industry), and anything up to that can be built in the given area. Plenty of 'residential' areas are broadly zoned as allowing up to l…

It truly is, I recently read a great article about the coffee shops being run out of a room in people's homes- I would love to sell coffee out of my garage for a few hours before work.

Happen to have that article? Sounds like a good read.

Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#75

Post by anonymous908213 »

RestartKernel wrote: post #59
anonymous908213 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think LGBTQ acceptance in Japan is significantly better than any Western country. The "issue", as it manifests, is of a fundamentally different nature. Not everyone is open to it, of course, and legal marriage is not an option[1]. But while there are many people who are somewhat bigoted, Japan is not an Abrahamic country. Unlike any Christian or Islamic country, the number of people who hate LGBTQ individuals, want…

> I think LGBTQ acceptance in Japan is significantly better than any Western country. Sorry, but I don't see your reasoning support this at all. The relative lack of Abrahamic religion would make an impact for sure, but Japan is more socially conservative by most relevant metrics. How does this one factor overcome that?

I don't particularly agree with claims that Japan is more socially conservative by most metrics, because they are made by Westerners who frame conservatism relative entirely to their own worldview, a worldview which is not particularly informed about the reality of Japan given that Western media constantly reports falsehoods for clicks. But that's not really here nor there.

The subject matter is LGBTQ acceptance specifically. The point about Abrahamic religion is that it creates a culture of extremely open and aggressive hostility towards LGBTQ people. Hatred becomes part of people's foundational beliefs because they believe that is what God demands of them, and they cannot be reasoned with to reach a mutual understanding. While you could cherrypick "relevant metrics" like specific legal rights to rate Western countries as "more progressive", the actual populations are less accepting, in other words your social rights are lesser and you are more likely to face severe discrimination and violence. Those legal rights are also in an extremely fragile state because there are conservative movements to strip those rights. In Japan, indifference is far more common than hatred, and political movements are not polarized around things like "wokeness" or "social justice". Takaichi, widely reported in Western media as ushering in a new era of Japanese hard-right conservatism, has a pretty moderate stance that is analogous to Obama circa 2008; she does not support same-sex marriage, but is not actively antagonistic or hateful towards LGBTQ people.

I would sum it up as this: LGBTQ life in Japan is peaceful. Legal rights could stand to be improved, but there is no fight to constantly justify your own existence, and you are allowed to live without facing significant social prejudice. Most people are accepting, and those that aren't mostly just don't care. There are large supportive communities and extensive cultural representation in media, too. I, personally, would never trade this status quo for that of the US or UK in a million years.

Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#76

Post by mwigdahl »

anonymous908213 wrote: post #16
mwigdahl wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused where the assertion about the constitution is coming from. There have been at least 5 years of lower court decisions in Japan stating that lack of same sex marriage is unconstitutional. See the below article noting that the current ban on same sex marriage is due to civil law, not the constitution. https://apnews.com/article/japan-lgbtq-samesex-marriage-ruli...

I mean, lower courts don't mean a lot in the grand scheme of things, for better or worse. It seems clear that the lower courts are trying to legislate from the bench in service of a moral good. The constitution is extremely unambiguous about this: 第二十四条 婚姻は、両性の合意のみに基いて成立し、夫婦が同等の権利を有することを基本として、相互の協力により、維持されなければならない。 With "両性" unambiguously meaning "both sexes" and "夫婦" unambiguously meaning "husband and wife".

Thanks, I did not go to the source document here so your quote and translation is appreciated!

Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#77

Post by numpad0 »

qmarchi wrote: post #30
anonymous908213 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, lower courts don't mean a lot in the grand scheme of things, for better or worse. It seems clear that the lower courts are trying to legislate from the bench in service of a moral good. The constitution is extremely unambiguous about this: 第二十四条 婚姻は、両性の合意のみに基いて成立し、夫婦が同等の権利を有することを基本として、相互の協力により、維持されなければならない。 With "両性" unambiguously meaning "both sexes" and "夫婦" unambiguously meaning "husband and wife".

You could play with that though since "both sexes" could be perceived as "both individuals that have a sex" and "husband and wife" don't have any technical meaning. I'm not a lawyer, but they're working on it.

It's already a play on 両姓(both surnames), which could have meant that parents could constitutionally block marriages. Not that it matters, though. People are frankly more concerned about tax frauds and crime record laundering abusing same-sex marriages than imagined traditional family values.

Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#78

Post by stevenhuang »

dfajgljsldkjag wrote: post #70

I find it unfortunate that this article is glorifying the quite exploitative industry of hostess bars in Japan. From Wikipedia: > A "snack bar" (スナックバー, sunakku bā), "snack" for short, refers to a kind of hostess bar. It is an alcohol-serving bar that employs female staff to serve and flirt with male customers. It is the kind of place where lonely men pay money to talk to hostesses, and while the "mama" runs the show…

What makes you so confident you understand these places when you're not Japanese and had to look up the wiki page for it?

Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#79

Post by numpad0 »

anonymous908213 wrote: post #3
wolvoleo wrote: post #2

Cool, in Holland snack bars are not homely at all. Some have just little cubbyholes in the wall where you insert a coin and take a croquette from behind a little window (we like buying stuff from behind windows I guess, lol). And if there is staff it's usually a big grumpy guy. And the food is really greasy. It's not a place you go for fun. It's more for quick fix food (though some of it is delicious though bad for y…

I think LGBTQ acceptance in Japan is significantly better than any Western country. The "issue", as it manifests, is of a fundamentally different nature. Not everyone is open to it, of course, and legal marriage is not an option[1]. But while there are many people who are somewhat bigoted, Japan is not an Abrahamic country. Unlike any Christian or Islamic country, the number of people who hate LGBTQ individuals, want…

Also like, pronouns in Chinese script, which Japanese language adopted as the script and a bulk source of vocabulary, are default ungendered. This significantly reduce the pressure that keeps gender identification a persistent checklist item in every contexts.

Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#80

Post by dfajgljsldkjag »

stevenhuang wrote: post #78
dfajgljsldkjag wrote: post #70

I find it unfortunate that this article is glorifying the quite exploitative industry of hostess bars in Japan. From Wikipedia: > A "snack bar" (スナックバー, sunakku bā), "snack" for short, refers to a kind of hostess bar. It is an alcohol-serving bar that employs female staff to serve and flirt with male customers. It is the kind of place where lonely men pay money to talk to hostesses, and while the "mama" runs the show…

What makes you so confident you understand these places when you're not Japanese and had to look up the wiki page for it?

I know exactly what I'm talking about, but I linked a trustworthy source so that it's not just "I told you so". But if that's what you want:

I'm Japanese and I understand this issue perfectly and you don't. It's exactly as I said it is. There I told you so. So go take a hike.

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