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Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

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Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#71
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mind paying more for a European product, and as for the 'poor long term reliability': we don't know what the long term reliability of Chinese vehicles is yet. Not that it really matters, my car is 27 years old this year and I won't be getting another one but that has to do with wanting a car that is doing what I want it to do rather than what it wants to do.

I don't know if this is paranoia, but one fear I have for high-tech Chinese products is that if a world war were to start with China, that they'd have the ability to remotely disable these kinds of products.

After the Israeli attack using pagers I think this is no longer paranoid at all.

The same goes for Chinese built cloud connected hardware, especially if it is grid connected, contains heater elements or batteries. Inverters, solar panels, vehicles, 3D printers, the list is endless and all of these are either potential fire starters or ways to destabilize the grid. Used maliciously the potential for misery is pretty large. All this crap that wants to connect to the cloud from a country where your average citizen has very limited access to the internet should give you pause: if the Chinese government thinks these connections are A-ok then they must see some advantage, especially if all the services are supposedly free of charge.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#72
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep seeing "underequipped technologically relative to their Chinese peers" on HN. What kind of stuff is missing? This is not a loaded question, I only drive a couple times a month, and the vehicle I'm driving is an older Prius, so I probably lack imagination. EVs are supposed to be technologically pretty simple, most of an EV's value being in the battery packs. I've been thinking about upgrading, perhaps to a Niss…

I think a few things. 1. They do not have robust self-driving capability. At this level of expense I expect hands-free major highway driving. 2. They’ve removed a lot of physical buttons that improve quality of life, the level of technology in the cabin is simply overwhelming. 3. They’ve done a great job with the driving experience of the EVs but they have poor range relative to the competition.

I hate touch/sensor buttons and sliders. Give me back my physical buttons and spinning controls. Also, same for electrical speedometers/tachometers, etc

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#73

Global sales of Porsche, Audi, Mercedes and BMW brand ( BMW Group sales increased marginally, but includes) have all declined. The end is in sight for German cars as Chinese made electric cars take over. I have had several German cars. Never again ! Sticking to Japanese and probably Chinese cars in the future. German cars were decent once. Now they are notorious for poor long term reliability.

Suddenly most of the world doesn't care about human rights? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Brazil_working_conditions_... https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/10/human-rights-... https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3v5n7w55kpo

yes, because when cars were bad and chinese brands were cheap, it was virtuous to pinpoint human rights vs 'chinese cars are yucky and i want to look cool'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumental_and_intrinsic_val...

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#74
post #12

I think a lot of people are missing a point here. Cars are not (just) use-values. They are expression of desire. They are, for some brands, classic Veblen Goods. Porche possibly could sell more by putting the price up They put their marque behind EV and Hybrid. It worked. Their brand sold well. This is in contradistinction to vendors who won't think about this market niche in positives, but are being dragged into it.

Did it work? I'm not sure the financial or car community would agree. They already walked back their BEV strategy:

"Due to market conditions, the new SUV series above the Cayenne, which was previously planned to be fully electric, will initially be offered exclusively as combustion engine and plug-in hybrid at market launch. In addition, current models such as the Panamera and the Cayenne will be available with combustion engines and plug-in hybrids well into the 2030s."

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2025/company/porsche-realign...

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#76
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've heard, the quality is pretty good. The problem is when something breaks, you can be waiting for (sometimes very expensive) parts for months while not being able to use your car.

That's not particularly unique amongst car manufacturers.

Maybe I got lucky, but I drove a 2011 model Ford from 2013-2025, and the worst part delay I experienced in that time was when they had to get next-day parts from a nearby city.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#77
I just buy japanese cars/vehicles these days. With that being said a lot of them are manufactured stateside - especially larger vehicles. I had a Mitsu I was very happy with. I've also purchased Hyundai made in Korea and it is wonderful but not much better that what was built in Iowa.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#78
post #8

I think Porsche is really in trouble here. I’m not anti-EV but the electric Macan and Cayenne look awful. They are under equipped technologically relative to their Chinese peers (heck basically anything). Porsche sort of sold its soul for this tech-forward design but it doesn’t deliver any meaningful benefits, these cars don’t even have level 2+ highway cruise control. In the meantime I get a bunch of crap screens an…

I keep seeing "underequipped technologically relative to their Chinese peers" on HN. What kind of stuff is missing? This is not a loaded question, I only drive a couple times a month, and the vehicle I'm driving is an older Prius, so I probably lack imagination. EVs are supposed to be technologically pretty simple, most of an EV's value being in the battery packs. I've been thinking about upgrading, perhaps to a Niss…

I don't want to make an exhaustive list, the summary is that standard features on many new cars are expensive options on Porsche's. And that's if they're available at all. Adaptive cruise control is one example.

Where I live, luxury cars are just status now. I don't think that's enough to keep gen Z and gen A interested.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#79
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think this is accurate, Chinese firms are increasingly moving up the quality chain. You might want to look at some of the reviews of Xiaomi’s recently launched car. Also, Tesla Shanghai is one of their best factories, much better quality scores than Fremont iirc. Having a totally local, integrated supply chain pays dividends in a lot of ways, as does leading in production volume. Tim Cook also gave that inter…

it took Japan about 25 years of very directed industrial strategy to take the "made in Japan" label from indicating junk to the average American, to indicating a premium/reliable product. China might get there in even less than 25 years but you'll probably still find people holding onto old "chinesium" beliefs long after they should

A key for Japan is also that for various product categories, they don't export (or maybe manufacture at all - I'm just not really familiar with their non-export goods) low-quality goods - I assume because it isn't economical to compete at the low end of the market.

Even though China can compete at the top of many markets, they still also compete at the bottom, which taints their reputation.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#80

Global sales of Porsche, Audi, Mercedes and BMW brand ( BMW Group sales increased marginally, but includes) have all declined. The end is in sight for German cars as Chinese made electric cars take over. I have had several German cars. Never again ! Sticking to Japanese and probably Chinese cars in the future. German cars were decent once. Now they are notorious for poor long term reliability.

Suddenly most of the world doesn't care about human rights? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Brazil_working_conditions_... https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/10/human-rights-... https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3v5n7w55kpo

No one cared to begin with. Just look up the horrors involved with Apple phones. People want their fancy devices. Doesn't matter if slave labor is involved. Doesn't matter if we need to add nets to prevent laborers from killing themselves instead of putting up with the horrible conditions we force them into.
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