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Ubuntu 12.10 Quantal Quetzal released

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Re: Ubuntu 12.10 Quantal Quetzal released

#71
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

install nautilus-open-terminal.

...now I just need to figure out how to make nautilus-open-terminal open a guake terminal tab instead and I'm in UI nirvana (too bad it's probably gonna take 4+ hrs X( )

This might help: http://askubuntu.com/questions/70540/how-can-i-set-default-t...

Re: Ubuntu 12.10 Quantal Quetzal released

#72
post #65
post #58

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I actually like the innovations canonical keeps bringing to unity (although I'm not in love with the amazon searches). My problem with it is execution - run gnome shell on the identical hardware and it will always run circles* around unity especially in terms ui responsiveness. Just press the super key after you've been doing something else for a while and start typing - in my e…

I tried Gnome Shell again 2 days ago with the 3.6 release. You can't configure it without an absurd number of extensions, the default interface makes me want to punch kittens, and it wiped my groups policy and network profiles so I am still trying to repair my startup procedure, and right now I need to manually start network-manager each time. I won't blame that necessarily on Gnome Shell though. I will say I don't c…

This isn't meant to be a retort - I agree that there is a lot of mess in deb-ubu/gnome 3. But if you have the time, try fedora on bare hardware to get an idea of how gnome is supposed to work. You probably won't want to stick with it for a variety of legitimate reasons, but the core ui feel is very, very nice - and that's what I wish I could get under ubuntu.

Re: Ubuntu 12.10 Quantal Quetzal released

#74
[Unity] has received a number of additions, all built around the idea of demolishing the walls between local applications and web applications

Here's the thing why Ubuntu is on shaky ground these days.

The above idea is grand but like everything that tries to be the future of something—in this case computing—it leaks. And leaky things will never take off for real much like leaky abstractions will not hold because the truth will leak out sooner or later, and then the abstraction isn't worth much since you can only trust it superficially.

The early Ubuntu and Windows 95 and XP had something in common: they all were built mostly on how the computer worked. These operating systems tried to make the underlying computer available to the user, give or take a few sugar-coatings. And they all pretty much succeeded.

Conversely, I think most systems that try to pretend to be something that they aren't will not succeed. Web applications won't become local applications just like that: the user will just see some visible glue that holds some parts together. You've seen it so many times: something comes with great features that only work till you really want some things done, and then it turns out the system doesn't do its magic all the way through. You just see the one kind of magic that has been preprogrammed into it and you've already observed that besides an initial impression, that one kind of magic can't deal with everything you need from the system. Then you can't trust the system anymore since you know there's more available than the system can agree to offer you.

Ubuntu is still basically a local installation: some stuff can originate from the cloud but it can not be a grand computing environment that unifies web and local services because it matters that the user has his own local installation. You can't boot Ubuntu from a USB stick and have your environment seamlessly load from the cloud.

Something like Android or iOS are much better positioned for seamlessly integrating local and web applications and local and cloud services. Using a tablet interface you don't really have the sense of local vs. web at all: you just have apps and once you sign up another device your apps will be available automatically. This is maybe what Shuttleworth is envisioning with the Unity and his current plans for Ubuntu, but the downside is that the regular Ubuntu desktop will suffer.

Ubuntu suffers because it doesn't pay respect to its natural, physical environment that is a local computer. It can be a highly tuned system that takes the most out of your hardware or it can be an ethereal, ubiquitous cloud service that's available regardless of hardware. But not both.

Re: Ubuntu 12.10 Quantal Quetzal released

#75

Switched to Mint with MATE (Gnome2 Fork) and am not looking back. Give it a try, it's worth it.

So I use Ubuntu 12.04 on my laptop and Linux Mint Debian Edition on the desktop. LMDE is OK, but I'm not sure Mate is a long-term solution. On the one hand it is great that they have maintained the old look and feel of Gnome 2, but forking so much "crap" seems like a huge wasted effort.

For example the configuration changes - instead of gconf, you now have mateconf, which uses a whole other set of files that are not compatible with gnome. So switching from an old Gnome desktop (say) to Mint+Mate means your settings are all lost, even though the forked code between gnome2 and mate is really close.

On a default LMDE install it adds gnome-terminal and mate-terminal, so on the menus you have 2 "Terminal" entries. Ditto for a load of other core applications that are in Gnome and Mate - stuff like Archive Manager, screenshot, and document viewer. Was there really a need to fork file-roller?

Debian have already pretty much said "no" to including Mate - the reason being that the duplication and resuscitation of crufty old code is not a good idea. It would be better, the say, to work with Gnome upstream to get a more Gnome2-ish feel in Gnome3. I think Cinnamon is in Debian or will be shortly, which probably has a brighter future.

Anyway, for now I'm happy with Mate - it works fine and didn't need any tweaking to get to a usable state, compare that to Gnome3 classic-session on Ubuntu 12.04 which I spent weeks tweaking and patching (!) to get back to a state that worked like 10.04 - but I think its days are numbered. The Mint devs alone can't keep a full-on Gnome2-fork alive forever, it has too many duplicated applications that are already fine in base Gnome, and eventually I think Cinnamon will be the only viable option for Mint.

Re: Ubuntu 12.10 Quantal Quetzal released

#77

what is the Java situation here?

I have been running Java on Ubuntu each release by just downloading directly from Oracle and exporting my JAVA_HOME and PATH variables. This is a pretty clean approach and allows me to use different JVMs for each type of application, and you can use update-alternatives to do it the Ubuntu way

Re: Ubuntu 12.10 Quantal Quetzal released

#78
post #34

"includes Python 3.2.3 as standard" Won't this have any impact on existing python installers, designed to be used with python 2.x?

If its only coming with 3.2.3 it will break many existing tools.(think django) If you see MAC, it does come with lower versions of python too, so it supports older python projects.(python2.7, python2.5 based and doesn't break the system) Latest Ubuntu might well come even with lower versions of python too - as many Ubuntu apps and tools itself use the lower versions of python. But the default python will be 3.2.3 To…

I run a django based website, and this upgrade didn't break anything. "/usr/bin/python" still refers to Python 2.X instead of Python 3.X.

Re: Ubuntu 12.10 Quantal Quetzal released

#80
post #4

As of 0842 UTC, it's not actually released yet. The link still refers to 12.04. Ars appear to have jumped the gun a little.

1500 UTC, the ubuntu.com homepage isn't updated but the 12.10 release is now available for download at http://releases.ubuntu.com/quantal/
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