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The coming industrialisation of exploit generation with LLMs

sean.heelan.io

71–80 of 174 posts

Re: The coming industrialisation of exploit generation with LLMs

#71
post #39
post #5

> In the hardest task I challenged GPT-5.2 it to figure out how to write a specified string to a specified path on disk, while the following protections were enabled: address space layout randomisation, non-executable memory, full RELRO, fine-grained CFI on the QuickJS binary, hardware-enforced shadow-stack, a seccomp sandbox to prevent shell execution, and a build of QuickJS where I had stripped all functionality in…

Tells you all you need to know around how extremely weak a C executable like QuickJS is for LLMs to exploit. (If you as an infosec researcher prompt them correctly to find and exploit vulnerabilities). > Leak a libc Pointer via Use-After-Free. The exploit uses the vulnerability to leak a pointer to libc. I doubt Rust would save you here unless the binary has very limited calls to libc, but would be much harder for a…

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Re: The coming industrialisation of exploit generation with LLMs

#72
post #63

One of the interesting things to me about this is that Codex 5.2 found the most complex of the exploits. The reflects my experience too. Opus 4.5 is my everyday driver - I like using it. But Codex 5.2 with Extra High thinking is just a bit more powerful. Also despite what people say, I don't believe progress in LLM performance is slowing down at all - instead we are having more trouble generating tasks that are hard…

The Anthropic models are great workers/tool users. OpenAI Codex High is a great reviewer/fixer. Gemini is the genius repainting your bathroom walls into a Monet from memory because you mentioned once a few weeks ago you liked classical art and needed to repaint your bathroom. Gemini didn’t mention the task or that it was starting it. It did a pretty good job after you had to admit.

Disagree about Codex - it's great at doing things too!

Gemini either does a Monet or demolishes your bathroom and builds a new tuna fishing boat there instead, and it is completely random which one you get.

It's a great model but I rarely use it because it's so random as to what you get.

Re: The coming industrialisation of exploit generation with LLMs

#73
post #47
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tells you all you need to know around how extremely weak a C executable like QuickJS is for LLMs to exploit. (If you as an infosec researcher prompt them correctly to find and exploit vulnerabilities). > Leak a libc Pointer via Use-After-Free. The exploit uses the vulnerability to leak a pointer to libc. I doubt Rust would save you here unless the binary has very limited calls to libc, but would be much harder for a…

"C executables" are most of the frontier of exploit development, which is why this is a meaningful model problem.

Can we fight fire with fire, and use LLMs to rewrite all the C in Rust?

Re: The coming industrialisation of exploit generation with LLMs

#74
post #3

I think the author makes some interesting points, but I'm not that worried about this. These tools feel symmetric for defenders to use as well. There's an easy to see path that involves running "LLM Red Teams" in CI before merging code or major releases. The fact that it's a somewhat time expensive (I'm ignoring cost here on purpose) test makes it feel similar to fuzzing for where it would fit in a pipeline. New tool…

Not symmetric at all. There are countless bugs to fund. If the offender runs these tools, then any bug they find becomes a cyberweapon. If the defender runs these tools, they will not thwart the offender unless they find and fix all of the bugs. Any vs all is not symmetric

How do bug bounties change the calculus? Assuming rational white hats who will report every bug which costs fewer LLM tokens than the bounty, on expectation.

Re: The coming industrialisation of exploit generation with LLMs

#75
post #12

I genuinely dont know who to believe. The people who claim LLMs are writing excellent exploits. Or the people who claim that LLMs are sending useless bug reports. I dont feel like both can really be true.

With the exploits, you can try them and they either work or they don't. An attacker is not especially interested in analysing why the successful ones work. With the CVE reports some poor maintainer has to go through and triage them, which is far more work, and very asymmetrical because the reporters can generate their spam reports in volume while each one requires detailed analysis.

It can't be too long before Claude Code is capable of replication + triage + suggested fixes...

Re: The coming industrialisation of exploit generation with LLMs

#76
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the exploits, you can try them and they either work or they don't. An attacker is not especially interested in analysing why the successful ones work. With the CVE reports some poor maintainer has to go through and triage them, which is far more work, and very asymmetrical because the reporters can generate their spam reports in volume while each one requires detailed analysis.

It can't be too long before Claude Code is capable of replication + triage + suggested fixes...

Would you ever blindly trust it?

Re: The coming industrialisation of exploit generation with LLMs

#77
post #3

I think the author makes some interesting points, but I'm not that worried about this. These tools feel symmetric for defenders to use as well. There's an easy to see path that involves running "LLM Red Teams" in CI before merging code or major releases. The fact that it's a somewhat time expensive (I'm ignoring cost here on purpose) test makes it feel similar to fuzzing for where it would fit in a pipeline. New tool…

Defenders have the added complexity of operating within business constraints like CAB/change control and uptime requirements. Threat actors don’t, so they can move quick and operate at scale.

Re: The coming industrialisation of exploit generation with LLMs

#78
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can't be too long before Claude Code is capable of replication + triage + suggested fixes...

Would you ever blindly trust it?

No. I would probably do something like: Have Claude Code replicate + triage everything. If a report gets triaged as "won't fix", send an email to the reporter explaining what Claude found and why it was marked as "won't fix". Tell the reporter they still have a chance at the bounty if they think Claude made a mistake, but they have to pay a $10 review fee to have a human take a look. (Or a $1 LLM token fee for Claude to take another look, in case of simple confabulation.)

Note I haven't actually tried Claude Code (not coding due to chronic illness), so I'm mostly extrapolating based on HN discussion etc.

Re: The coming industrialisation of exploit generation with LLMs

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not symmetric at all. There are countless bugs to fund. If the offender runs these tools, then any bug they find becomes a cyberweapon. If the defender runs these tools, they will not thwart the offender unless they find and fix all of the bugs. Any vs all is not symmetric

How do bug bounties change the calculus? Assuming rational white hats who will report every bug which costs fewer LLM tokens than the bounty, on expectation.

They don’t.

For the calculus to change, anyone running an LLM to find bugs would have to be able to find all of the bugs that anyone else running an LLM could ever find.

That’s not going to happen.

Re: The coming industrialisation of exploit generation with LLMs

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do bug bounties change the calculus? Assuming rational white hats who will report every bug which costs fewer LLM tokens than the bounty, on expectation.

They don’t. For the calculus to change, anyone running an LLM to find bugs would have to be able to find all of the bugs that anyone else running an LLM could ever find. That’s not going to happen.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a better mental model would be something like: Take the union of all bugs found by all white hats, fix all of those, then check if any black hat has found sufficient unfixed bugs to construct an exploit chain?
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