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On Being a Human Being in the Time of Collapse (2022) [pdf]

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Re: On Being a Human Being in the Time of Collapse (2022) [pdf]

#71

Post by ramraj07 »

jimmcslim wrote: post #25
tomaytotomato wrote: post #4

I think its a pessimistic outlook and I agree with the sentiment, but then I switch back to objectively how humanity has been historically and how far we have come, I can't stop thinking, "wow". Being in my 30s I remember Y2K, OZone layer diminishing and a rogue comet coming to wipe out humanity, but it didn't. This is survivor bias just like the examples in the lecture around wildfires and Covid are surely survivor…

I think if someone came up with a liquid solution that could be easily carried and sprayed on dog poo, such that it harmlessly (to either the pavement or grass/soil it was deposited upon) dissolved in the space of a few minutes leaving nary a trace… that person would become very very rich.

You want a spray that converts dog poo into dog diarrhea, and you think thats better?

Re: On Being a Human Being in the Time of Collapse (2022) [pdf]

#72

Post by guitarlimeo »

tomaytotomato wrote: post #30
shswkna wrote: post #16

Nihilistic garbage lecture, that is my first opinion. On the other hand, he could have intended the exaggerated pessimistic outlook, to spur into action. But my bias remains, I don’t like his defeatist attitude.

Indeed, it makes you wonder how prevalent this psychological malaise is in the world of teaching and academia. I don't want any future children of mine, to have self loathing/pessimism or "woe is me" feelings taught by teachers or lecturers. Self reflection yes, abstract and critical thinking yes, expressing feelings yes. No - "sorry the world is burning, I think you should be sad about this and maybe reconsider bein…

> I don't want any future children of mine, to have self loathing/pessimism or "woe is me" feelings taught by teachers or lecturers.

Except that wasn't the point? The point was to critically evaluate what value your work brings to the world and if it is positive. It emphasizes that having ethics as an engineer is maybe a better thing than being a apolitical robot who is only motivated by money.

If there was something similar to the Hippocratic Oath but for engineers, I would vouch for it.

Re: On Being a Human Being in the Time of Collapse (2022) [pdf]

#73

Post by _heimdall »

seu wrote: post #34

I studied computer science and worked in and around software for a good 20+ years. Then I slowly started realizing how apolitical almost everyone around me in software was. I was fortunate to have had other influences and interests beyond CS, but it seemed like others didn't think much about society or politics, beyond how "great" everything could be made with tech. I started gravitating out of the software bubble. F…

When it comes to global or environmental concerns, that isn't unique to software. Wealth is created by collecting and using natural resources.

You can always find companies sneaking through that system and turning a profit despite not directly consuming resources like that, but they are few and far between. I'd expect jobs like that to effectively be a rounding error, meaning anyone with a job is likely working on something that is detrimental to people and/or the planet in some way, even if those costs are externalized out of their field of view.

Re: On Being a Human Being in the Time of Collapse (2022) [pdf]

#74

Post by jhbadger »

rsp1984 wrote: post #57
grunder_advice wrote: post #9

Pretty much all western countries are experiencing a crisis of democracy. It seems to me that the biggest contributor to this is the vulnerability of the electorate. It seems to me that it has become possible to hijack the minds of individuals with sustained propaganda campaigns. You have individuals who at best completely a BSc in Business Studies, and you are asking them to decide on COVID or climate change. That b…

The boring but true answer is that the only thing people should be protesting for is a change of the electoral law. Everything else is downstream of that. In the US, it's a de-facto duopoly on power, held up by a number of "winner-takes-all" rules. Politicians of either party will do everything in their power to keep "outsiders" (i.e. people/parties that are not entrenched in the two-party system and might actually d…

I'm not sure "keeping out outsiders" is a bug. The US is experiencing what it is like to be governed by an outsider with no previous political experience and who thinks things like "laws" don't apply to him, and who thinks experts can't be trusted and puts unqualified people in charge of the military, science and health. Politicians need to develop -- they should start with a local position, and "graduate" to a national-level position before they even attempt to rule a nation.

Re: On Being a Human Being in the Time of Collapse (2022) [pdf]

#75

Post by rahimnathwani »

grunder_advice wrote: post #39
rahimnathwani wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apart from facts and values, people differ in their ability to predict the outcome of policy choices.

Exactly. Most propaganda is about embellishment and fear mongering that completely destroys the ability of the individual to accurately access the topic at hand.

You're assuming they had (or would have had) the ability in the first place.

(s/access/assess)

Re: On Being a Human Being in the Time of Collapse (2022) [pdf]

#76

Post by ramraj07 »

dash2 wrote: post #24

I predict that in 25 years (or 50 or 100): - human society will be even richer, more prosperous and more technologically advanced - people will still be desperately worrying that this is a time of crisis and collapse Let's see.

Part of humanity will be sure. But what about the rest?

Climate change will not kill humanity off, but its likely to cause suffering we haven’t seen since WWII (or worse).

Unfortunately I've seen a glimpse of how the bottom 50% of people (not in a developed country but globally) get by today. If one doesnt care for their suffering and their lives, its easy to confirm that the society on average (not on median) will be more prosperous. But that will more likely manifest through a few hundred trillionaires living in space and a few ten thousand billionaires who serve them with their services.

The bottom billions will likely just starve, move around desperately due to war, famine, fire and flood, turned away at closed borders, and who knows what new type of cruelty that will bubble up in the future. What do we tell them?

Re: On Being a Human Being in the Time of Collapse (2022) [pdf]

#77

Post by Fricken »

tomaytotomato wrote: post #30
shswkna wrote: post #16

Nihilistic garbage lecture, that is my first opinion. On the other hand, he could have intended the exaggerated pessimistic outlook, to spur into action. But my bias remains, I don’t like his defeatist attitude.

Indeed, it makes you wonder how prevalent this psychological malaise is in the world of teaching and academia. I don't want any future children of mine, to have self loathing/pessimism or "woe is me" feelings taught by teachers or lecturers. Self reflection yes, abstract and critical thinking yes, expressing feelings yes. No - "sorry the world is burning, I think you should be sad about this and maybe reconsider bein…

Woe is you

Re: On Being a Human Being in the Time of Collapse (2022) [pdf]

#78

Post by microtonal »

_heimdall wrote: post #49
grunder_advice wrote: post #9

Pretty much all western countries are experiencing a crisis of democracy. It seems to me that the biggest contributor to this is the vulnerability of the electorate. It seems to me that it has become possible to hijack the minds of individuals with sustained propaganda campaigns. You have individuals who at best completely a BSc in Business Studies, and you are asking them to decide on COVID or climate change. That b…

In my opinion these types of problems always boil down to fear. When a person or people are afraid they act erratically. At a large scale it often leads to the wrong type of leader stepping up to use that fear for their own gain, in many cases they pull the majority together by pointing at a smaller group and claiming they're the cause of all the problems. The only reliable solution I know to that is for people to be…

The only reliable solution I know to that is for people to be principled.

...and educated.

Today it seems like we've lost that almost entirely.

We replaced it by egoism. Through decades of neoliberalism we are taught to only care about ourselves, not our communities. Making money and buying things became our main philosophy. It does not matter if you are actually well-off, everyone is in a race with everyone else.

As a result, we don't stand up against injustice as long as it does not affect us much. And the egoism makes everything seem like a zero-sum game, if an immigrant gets a house paid by taxes, then I must be losing something.

This is also what permeates current US policy - you can only win if someone else loses. In this mindset it is not possible to have cooperation that is mutually beneficial.

I hope we can heal as mankind and take care of each other again.

Re: On Being a Human Being in the Time of Collapse (2022) [pdf]

#79

Post by fc417fc802 »

jhbadger wrote: post #74
rsp1984 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The boring but true answer is that the only thing people should be protesting for is a change of the electoral law. Everything else is downstream of that. In the US, it's a de-facto duopoly on power, held up by a number of "winner-takes-all" rules. Politicians of either party will do everything in their power to keep "outsiders" (i.e. people/parties that are not entrenched in the two-party system and might actually d…

I'm not sure "keeping out outsiders" is a bug. The US is experiencing what it is like to be governed by an outsider with no previous political experience and who thinks things like "laws" don't apply to him, and who thinks experts can't be trusted and puts unqualified people in charge of the military, science and health. Politicians need to develop -- they should start with a local position, and "graduate" to a natio…

Notably, we could do that while still abolishing first past the post. Requirements for holding a previous position could be added while simultaneously reforming the federal (and hopefully also state) systems to be compatible with multiple parties. I imagine it would be sufficient for each level to require a single term served at the previous level - city or county, state, and federal.

The downside is encouraging career politicians, but the upside is that if you can't win increasingly high stakes elections over a period of 10 years or so then you probably have no business being the president of a country this size.

Re: On Being a Human Being in the Time of Collapse (2022) [pdf]

#80

Post by rjdj377dhabsn »

grunder_advice wrote: post #9

Pretty much all western countries are experiencing a crisis of democracy. It seems to me that the biggest contributor to this is the vulnerability of the electorate. It seems to me that it has become possible to hijack the minds of individuals with sustained propaganda campaigns. You have individuals who at best completely a BSc in Business Studies, and you are asking them to decide on COVID or climate change. That b…

> Pretty much all western countries are experiencing a crisis of democracy.

Genuine question: what exactly is a "crisis of democracy"?

I see this term thrown around all the time now, but all I can conclude is it's just part of the hyperbolic rhetoric that dominates mainstream and social media.

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