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Americans Overwhelmingly Support Science, but Some Think the U.S. Is Lagging

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Americans Overwhelmingly Support Science, but Some Think the U.S. Is Lagging

#71

Post by programjames »

mmooss wrote: post #60
programjames wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is true. It is also true that their primary and secondary schools were quickly dropping in rank relative to other countries in the 2010s, and their universities were following in the COVID/post-COVID era.

I think the primary and secondary schools were well behind long before the 2010s. > their universities were following in the COVID/post-COVID era I haven't heard of that. Where can I find more about it, if you remember?

Elsewhere in this thread, someone links to this NYT article:

"Chinese Universities Surge in Global Rankings as U.S. Schools Slip"

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/15/us/harvard-global-ranking...

They say Chinese elite universities are surpassing American ones in research and funding, and that 20% fewer international students enrolled in American universities in 2025. Though, of course, that was right after Trump took away Harvard student visas.

Re: Americans Overwhelmingly Support Science, but Some Think the U.S. Is Lagging

#72

Post by xboxnolifes »

tanderson92 wrote: post #59
cogman10 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are bad things but I have a hard time seeing these as the reason why science is lagging. Science is lagging in the US because the US has destroyed viable careers in science. Who does the hard work to get PHd in a scientific field knowing that they'll be saddled with hundreds of thousands of jobs in debt and that there's a good chance that they'll have no employment opportunities after the fact. Especially with…

People do not graduate with a STEM PhD with hundreds of thousands in debt; that is not how the education system works pretty much anywhere in the world.

Your PhD might not put you into hundreds of thousands of debt, but your undergrad very much might in the US. And then you'd have to choose to start a PhD while having hundreds of thousands in debt.

Re: Americans Overwhelmingly Support Science, but Some Think the U.S. Is Lagging

#73

Post by general1465 »

fxtentacle wrote: post #3

The US has become a world leader in suing curious people into submission. As soon as you touch any commercially available tech and do anything that the manufacturer dislikes, you're at risk, thanks to § 1201: "No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title." Extending your digital camera with new firmware? Illegal. Inventing a custom ink or add…

Similar to Apple Vision Pro being called a development kit. Ironically it was closed from top to bottom.

Re: Americans Overwhelmingly Support Science, but Some Think the U.S. Is Lagging

#74

Post by xboxnolifes »

ActorNightly wrote: post #8

>Americans Overwhelmingly Support Science Considering on the average 7/10 people either voted for Trump or didn't vote, (with Trump openly stating that he wants to neuter universities) Americans "think" they support science.

On the average, 7/10 people also either didn't vote for Trump or didn't vote. Weird how framing votes in the favor of your argument works like that.

Re: Americans Overwhelmingly Support Science, but Some Think the U.S. Is Lagging

#75

Post by beej71 »

mmmBacon wrote: post #24
jqpabc123 wrote: post #2

The US is lagging by every reasonable measure. What has changed is primarily 2 things: 1) People in positions of authority are now openly anti-progress in an effort to pacify entrenched interests. 2) These same people are also openly anti-immigrant. In the past, a lot of science in the USA has been imported from other countries by way of immigration. Less science equals less/inferior technology which equals smaller e…

By what metric is the US lagging? By any objective measure we can see the dominance of US technology. I think it’s most of the rest of the world that’s being left behind; Europe in particular. If what you’re saying is true the US economy would also be flagging but it’s not. If what you’re saying is true, you’d see the list of the world’s most valuable companies dominated by non-US firms. I think you are confusing the…

> at least the next 5 years

That's not much of a flex. The people who are worried about China taking the lead are looking at velocity and acceleration, not position.

Re: Americans Overwhelmingly Support Science, but Some Think the U.S. Is Lagging

#76

Post by coeneedell »

dixie_land wrote: post #27
cle wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans think "supporting universities" is not necessarily the same as "supporting science."

to be fair universities nowadays are more interested in supporting identity politics and liberal ideology than supporting science

I don’t see how you can make this claim when the budget balance at universities is extremely tilted towards stem. The budget for the kind of programs you seem to be complaining about come out to percents. Hard to say universities are “more interested” in very very small parts of their budget. What is happening now though is the federal government holds back billions of dollars in medical research grants, punishing, in some cases even killing patients, over “ideological” issues.

Re: Americans Overwhelmingly Support Science, but Some Think the U.S. Is Lagging

#77

Post by dsfdsfdsffdsfs »

Congeec wrote: post #33
diego_moita wrote: post #6

Everyone in the world "supports" science, exactly the same way everyone "supports" healthy lifestyles, democracy and other "good things". The problem is that everyone has a different idea of what these good things are. For some, science is vaccines, understanding global warming and the theory of evolution. Others will say that real science is denying global warming, creationism, anti-vaxers or homeopathy.

Some religious groups may not support science

To be fair, one religious group invented science.

Re: Americans Overwhelmingly Support Science, but Some Think the U.S. Is Lagging

#78

Post by ceejayoz »

gadders wrote: post #34
yoyohello13 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure "whoever could make it over the border" are not getting admitted to Harvard.

Agreed - so why admit the rest?

Because it turns out we need lettuce, too?

Re: Americans Overwhelmingly Support Science, but Some Think the U.S. Is Lagging

#79

Post by eudamoniac »

programjames wrote: post #53
b65e8bee43c2ed0 wrote: post #21

there's science as in "STEM" and there's science as in "trust the science". virtually everyone supports the former.

Not really, there's been a pretty effective culture war saying, "STEM degrees are actually useless, you need to know how to have a human connection." Only around 25% of Bachelor's and Master's degrees are in STEM fields, though it shoots up to 65% of PhDs. It seems to be pointing towards most people not supporting STEM, and advocating for students to not go into STEM, despite having some of the most lucrative (in exp…

STEM is harder. 25% of undergrads seems like a reasonable guess of who would be capable of attaining a STEM degree without lowering standards.

Re: Americans Overwhelmingly Support Science, but Some Think the U.S. Is Lagging

#80

Post by mhuffman »

iamrobertismo wrote: post #30
noo_u wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is the world leader in suing in general, and yet it produces a lot more research than most other legally friendly places... how's that?

I think some people overblow the lawsuit risk in the US. It really does suck here, however one of the benefits to certain types of innovation is that the US has a lot of IP protection infrastructure. Which stiffles innovation in a lot of ways, but also makes investment easier in some cases.

This is true in a way. We are all very free to research and innovate, it is just when you get it in your mind to actually make any money that the lawsuits show up.
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