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The 500k-ton typo: Why data center copper math doesn't add up

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Re: The 500k-ton typo: Why data center copper math doesn't add up

#71

Post by mmulqueen »

candiddevmike wrote: post #35
crote wrote: post #27

With regards to the copper market: it keeps surprising me that some people seem to assume copper is a hard requirement for conducting electricity. In reality copper is just convenient . We use it because it's easy to work with, a great conductor, and (until recently) quite affordable. But for most applications there's no reason we couldn't use something else! For example, a 1.5mm2 copper conductor is 0.0134kg/m, whic…

AFAIK Aluminum wires will become a heat liability, especially at higher amps

It depends on design, environment and maintenance. If it's well protected against oxidation and it's static, it's not really a problem. Heat issues are often at the joints, which are most vulnerable, but can be coated and encapsulated to mitigate. For some uses, aluminium is superior to copper all things considered. Obviously the diameter of the wire/cable depends on which conductor you use, AC/DC, current and service temp - for some applications, that may favour one material over the other.

Re: The 500k-ton typo: Why data center copper math doesn't add up

#73

Post by pixl97 »

Analemma_ wrote: post #46
y-curious wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not an electricity/wiring guy so maybe you can help me understand. I thought aluminum is dangerous to wire with because it is a fire hazard (I bought a home this year and this was a prominent warning in my reading). Is that because it needs to be done very carefully? I imagine most data centers would not mess with a fire risk on such a scale.

It’s a fire hazard in residential houses where people frequently do their own wiring, because it needs more expertise to wire correctly. Copper wiring is a lot more forgiving to being hooked up by amateurs. The biggest reason is that aluminum oxidizes, and unlike copper, the oxide layer has high resistivity. In theory that shouldn’t be an issue in datacenters hiring expert technicians.

Yea, in a data center setup the cost difference can justify the things like soldiering connections rather than mechanical connectors with a higher resistance.

Re: The 500k-ton typo: Why data center copper math doesn't add up

#75

Post by knollimar »

y-curious wrote: post #37
crote wrote: post #27

With regards to the copper market: it keeps surprising me that some people seem to assume copper is a hard requirement for conducting electricity. In reality copper is just convenient . We use it because it's easy to work with, a great conductor, and (until recently) quite affordable. But for most applications there's no reason we couldn't use something else! For example, a 1.5mm2 copper conductor is 0.0134kg/m, whic…

I am not an electricity/wiring guy so maybe you can help me understand. I thought aluminum is dangerous to wire with because it is a fire hazard (I bought a home this year and this was a prominent warning in my reading). Is that because it needs to be done very carefully? I imagine most data centers would not mess with a fire risk on such a scale.

Old aluminum is dangerous. Modern aa-8000 series aluminum is fine. Bigger pipes though.

Re: The 500k-ton typo: Why data center copper math doesn't add up

#76

Post by jabl »

y-curious wrote: post #37
crote wrote: post #27

With regards to the copper market: it keeps surprising me that some people seem to assume copper is a hard requirement for conducting electricity. In reality copper is just convenient . We use it because it's easy to work with, a great conductor, and (until recently) quite affordable. But for most applications there's no reason we couldn't use something else! For example, a 1.5mm2 copper conductor is 0.0134kg/m, whic…

I am not an electricity/wiring guy so maybe you can help me understand. I thought aluminum is dangerous to wire with because it is a fire hazard (I bought a home this year and this was a prominent warning in my reading). Is that because it needs to be done very carefully? I imagine most data centers would not mess with a fire risk on such a scale.

Aluminum got a bad rep due to a lot of poor installations made in the 1960 and 70'ies. Subsequently new alloys (AA-8000 series) for wiring, new installation and termination procedures etc. have been developed, and AFAIU the situation today is much better. It's still trickier than copper wiring, so probably not a good option for DIY, but for some industrial installation with competent personnel and where the savings can be substantial it could certainly be an attractive option.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum_building_wiring

Re: The 500k-ton typo: Why data center copper math doesn't add up

#77

Post by knollimar »

kmbfjr wrote: post #41
crote wrote: post #27

With regards to the copper market: it keeps surprising me that some people seem to assume copper is a hard requirement for conducting electricity. In reality copper is just convenient . We use it because it's easy to work with, a great conductor, and (until recently) quite affordable. But for most applications there's no reason we couldn't use something else! For example, a 1.5mm2 copper conductor is 0.0134kg/m, whic…

Aluminum conductors are dangerous unless the entire system is designed for it. It is not a case of switching to something cheaper. Look at the electrical fires of the 1950’s and 1960’s as an example, and that was at household levels of current. Aluminum is used, but everything accounts for the insane coefficient of linear expansion and other annoying properties.

This isn't true at all unless you narrowly dwfine "the entire system".

Each feeder can be aluminum if you put special goop on any copper connections. Breakers accept it just fine, etc.

You should avoid it for smaller wiring, though. There's special 8000 series aluminum if you're trying to be serious with Al feeders

Re: The 500k-ton typo: Why data center copper math doesn't add up

#78

Post by zekyl314 »

NoNotTheDuo wrote: post #74

Amazingly ironic that in an article about a typo, there is a typo. > "Tat sounds like the ultimate catalyst for the commodities market and copper has been hitting records." "Tat" should be "That", imo.

I saw this too, awesome to report on a typo when you yourself have a typo. What are the odds?

Re: The 500k-ton typo: Why data center copper math doesn't add up

#80

Post by zenoprax »

zekyl314 wrote: post #78
NoNotTheDuo wrote: post #74

Amazingly ironic that in an article about a typo, there is a typo. > "Tat sounds like the ultimate catalyst for the commodities market and copper has been hitting records." "Tat" should be "That", imo.

I saw this too, awesome to report on a typo when you yourself have a typo. What are the odds?

Muphry's Law

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry%27s_law

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