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How London cracked mobile phone coverage on the Underground

ianvisits.co.uk

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Re: How London cracked mobile phone coverage on the Underground

#71

Post by rhubarbtree »

dbish wrote: post #5

Pretty neat but as someone who commutes every day on the New York subway I hope it’s never “cracked” here. Phone usage without headphones is already annoying enough and I greatly appreciate the various people trying to take calls eventually lose service.

What is the thing with people using phones without headphones? And making calls on public transport? When did that become a thing? It’s the most obnoxious selfish behaviour and it shocks me every time.

It’s not just Gen Z either, I’ve seen a few boomers do it and even a couple of millennials.

Re: How London cracked mobile phone coverage on the Underground

#72

Post by wolvoleo »

userbinator wrote: post #30

I wonder if they considered using the existing metal tracks as antennae, or even https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_line_communication to feed base stations in the trains themselves. So the ESN in the tunnels runs at 400 MHz, far lower than the 700 to 3,600 MHz range usually used by smartphones. It's worth noting that 450MHz was listed as one of the GSM bands, but apparently was never used: https://en.wikipedia.org/…

Weird because very few phones have that band. Requires much larger antennas. Twice as long as for 800Mhz.

Edit: ah I see why, this is exclusively about the Emergency Services network, not for regular phones.

In that sense it seems a bit similar to GSM-R used by the railways here.

Re: How London cracked mobile phone coverage on the Underground

#73

Post by mikelward »

dotBen wrote: post #8

One of the frustrating things about international roaming in the UK is typically your plan does not include coverage on this neutral network on the underground

I don't think that's correct.

With the old WiFi networks (Virgin, Vodafone WiFi, etc.), yes.

With the new 4G+5G coverage, you can access that the same as you access above ground coverage.

Re: How London cracked mobile phone coverage on the Underground

#74

Post by LightBug1 »

cm2187 wrote: post #66
LightBug1 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A third of the time? Sorry, nonsense. I use the tube several times a day and it's a real rarity. I do worry about the tube becoming a cacophony of phone calls, but really? Everyone message now anyway so I reckon that'll be a rarity too.

It may also be highly dependent on which direction you travel. When you travel east from the city, you get totally different demographics than when you travel west.

Really? What do you mean?

Re: How London cracked mobile phone coverage on the Underground

#75

Post by LightBug1 »

hereonout2 wrote: post #41
p10jkle wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There already is signal on many underground lines, and it’s pretty rare that people are playing things out loud in my experience?

It's because phones speakers aren't loud enough to be audible over the sound of the tube itself! It is noticeable on buses and overground when people play things out load, but to be honest quite rare in the grand scheme of things.

That's true. I made several complaints about that to TFL before capitulating and just settling for noise-cancelling headphones.

Never been happier.

The clincher was noticing that the drivers themselves had access to ear defenders ... TFL said that that's because they're down there for extended periods of time. Sounds reasonable but I'm not buying that as a way out of not fixing the issue and exposing my ears to the worst bits of the tube.

Also has the ancillary benefits of blocking out those rare times (for me) when people do have their phone on speaker or are having a chat I'm uninterested in.

Re: How London cracked mobile phone coverage on the Underground

#76

Post by Symbiote »

Brajeshwar wrote: post #10
dotBen wrote: post #8

One of the frustrating things about international roaming in the UK is typically your plan does not include coverage on this neutral network on the underground

Did the UK stop people from just picking up a cheap SIM at the Airport? I always like a local number when traveling. Anyway, Indian Roaming plans are so cheap these days that it's much easier and cheaper to just subscribe to them as part of the plan. These days, I don’t even need to add/activate it or anything, the providers turn it ON when I start my phone outside India and turn it off when I re-activate back in Ind…

I think I saw vending machines with SIM cards recently in Heathrow airport.

Re: How London cracked mobile phone coverage on the Underground

#77

Post by Symbiote »

mft_ wrote: post #65
Havoc wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

London’s first line predates tokyos by like 60 years and was literally the test ground for how to make underground’s The challenge isn’t the technology but rather the environment you’re trying to retrofit

So if I follow, you’re saying that because London’s underground is older than Tokyo’s, it somehow changes the physical environment of the tunnels or their surroundings such that installing the required technology is more difficult? Please expand…

The tunnels are particularly narrow and lived with iron rings. There's less space for adding equipment.

Re: How London cracked mobile phone coverage on the Underground

#78

Post by youngtaff »

rhubarbtree wrote: post #71
dbish wrote: post #5

Pretty neat but as someone who commutes every day on the New York subway I hope it’s never “cracked” here. Phone usage without headphones is already annoying enough and I greatly appreciate the various people trying to take calls eventually lose service.

What is the thing with people using phones without headphones? And making calls on public transport? When did that become a thing? It’s the most obnoxious selfish behaviour and it shocks me every time. It’s not just Gen Z either, I’ve seen a few boomers do it and even a couple of millennials.

Ten of so years ago I was on a train and the women opposite me gave all her credit card details to someone over the phone — anyone close by could have had fun with them

Re: How London cracked mobile phone coverage on the Underground

#79

Post by MagnumOpus »

dgxyz wrote: post #61
saulr wrote: post #37

Just to add a piece of data to support this: > It turns out the phone signal inside the station can be better than the one above ground I was surprised when I noticed I had 5G in the tunnel, ran a speed test and hit 641Mbps down! https://www.speedtest.net/result/i/6831252952

That always hurts. I live in a particularly nice bit of London and there is virtually no mobile phone service other than voice and can only get 80 meg ADSL. Yet the mole people get better service. Grr.

One might even suspect that the particularly nice parts of London are full of NIMBYs who successfully petition against the eyesore of mobile masts being put up…

(Circumstantial evidence is that a particularly extra nice part of central London has no tube station, ostensibly to keep the riff-raff out, and is the only area with a proposed station on Crossrail 2 that voted against having a new station!)

Re: How London cracked mobile phone coverage on the Underground

#80

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

mft_ wrote: post #65
Havoc wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

London’s first line predates tokyos by like 60 years and was literally the test ground for how to make underground’s The challenge isn’t the technology but rather the environment you’re trying to retrofit

So if I follow, you’re saying that because London’s underground is older than Tokyo’s, it somehow changes the physical environment of the tunnels or their surroundings such that installing the required technology is more difficult? Please expand…

There is very limited clearance inside the tunnels, and a lot of electrical noise from existing systems.
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