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> American taxpayers have spent billions on these organizations with little return, while they often criticize U.S. policies, advance agendas contrary to our values, or waste taxpayer dollars by purporting to address important issues but not achieving any real results. >By exiting these entities, President Trump is saving taxpayer money and refocusing resources on America First priorities. Taking a look at the actual…
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As others have noted, I don't understand how anyone can view that video and believe that any ICE agent was at risk of losing their life, but shooting at someone behind the wheel of a car that is heading towards you is not the correct way to resolve that situation even from a purely selfish and pragmatic perspective. We even see the "why" in this video. Dead people can't control the accelerator or the wheel. A severel…
Eh. No. The video suggests otherwise[1]. [1] https://i.4cdn.org/pol/1767848684973262.webm
The ICE agent is maybe pushed by a car moving at low speed. Maybe. He is still never in danger of losing his life or being seriously harmed. The car still accelerates more after he has shot the woman than it did before he shot her.
Meanwhile taking that all at face value relies entirely on low res and heavily compressed video taken at a distance, vs. what we appear to see in the much closer, much higher res, much less compressed footage. We even see the officer after the shooting holster his weapon, calmly move around without any sign of injury, no limp, etc.
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"The video" sounds authoritive. The video linked is to a 4chan hosted selective cut and edit with overlaid commentary of questionable authority. Full raw video starts earlier, the audio includes conflicting instructions, the car reverses and moves forwards all before the linked video begins. The LEO LARPer in front of the car is "in danger" as they moved there in order to shoot the driver. A trained response and reco…
Full points for framing. No sale. I can give you it is a clusterfuck. As for untrained, well, I think based on the results, one could argue otherwise. I think I will stop responding and start heading to bed. This day sucks. Nevertheless, the conversation was interesting. Hope we can chat again at one point.
It was unnecessary to shoot the woman even if doing so could potentially be a good way to stop someone that is driving towards you, but it also patently is not a good way as evidenced by the fact that doing it caused the car to accelerate significantly more than it ever did before she was shot, before it crashes into the parked cars.
Many police departments have explicit policies here.
The DOJ does:
https://www.justice.gov/jm/1-16000-department-justice-policy...
ICE is part of DHS, and DHS has policies as well, though not as explicit as the DOJ's:
https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/mgmt/la...
They're explicitly prohibited from using deadly force unless they reasonably believe their life is in danger or they are under threat of significant bodily harm, which is obviously not the case here. It's also explicitly prohibited to use it just because a subject is fleeing, unless they have reason to believe the subject fleeing will allow them to kill or significantly injure others - again, obviously not the case here.
The ICE agent acted in a way that goes against DHS policy, against standard policy in general, and in a way that would have zero productive outcomes even ignoring the fact he murdered some poor lady.
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Holding a random person to the same standards for judgment as the people we are entrusting the enforcement of law, sometimes with deadly force, is an insane thing to do. It doesn't matter if she was impeding an ICE smash and grab. It doesn't matter if she might have clipped the ICE officer at 4-5 mph when she freaked out - because the officer shot her after all the ICE agents were already out of danger of death or si…
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ICE is explicitly not allowed to use deadly force to prevent someone from fleeing or because they might receive a minor injury. It's also not allowed to use it for revenge, which would be the case here if he was swiped - the shots happen after he is to the side and continue even as she is past them.
It is strictly to be used as a preventative measure to protect others. That is obviously not what happened here.
Trying to justify the murder of someone by an ICE agent that has gone far outside of policy and far outside of policing standards just because the victim might have also done something far far far more minor wrong is insane.
The Trump administration seems eager to pit America against the rest of the world's nations, which altogether comprise 8 billion people. The USA has a population of around 0.4 billion. Until a future administration corrects course, the future will be one demoralizing failure after another.
I am sorry, but the damage is already done. It cannot be repaired. NEVER!
I hate to invoke Godwin's law, but Germany was once the most reviled country in the world and is now, arguably, the most influential country in the European Union. Clearly, damage much worse than what the US has done over Trump's two terms can be repaired over time.
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Full points for framing. No sale. I can give you it is a clusterfuck. As for untrained, well, I think based on the results, one could argue otherwise. I think I will stop responding and start heading to bed. This day sucks. Nevertheless, the conversation was interesting. Hope we can chat again at one point.
The results quite explicitly show how lacking the training is for these ICE agents. It was unnecessary to shoot the woman even if doing so could potentially be a good way to stop someone that is driving towards you, but it also patently is not a good way as evidenced by the fact that doing it caused the car to accelerate significantly more than it ever did before she was shot, before it crashes into the parked cars.…
You may disagree with it, but that is the current state. We can talk about adjusting the policy, but thats day after considerations.
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https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/mgmt/la... ICE is explicitly not allowed to use deadly force to prevent someone from fleeing or because they might receive a minor injury. It's also not allowed to use it for revenge, which would be the case here if he was swiped - the shots happen after he is to the side and continue even as she is past them. It is strictly to be used as a preventative measure to…
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Eh. No. The video suggests otherwise[1]. [1] https://i.4cdn.org/pol/1767848684973262.webm
Nothing in that video, even if taken at face value, disagrees with a single point I made. The ICE agent is maybe pushed by a car moving at low speed. Maybe. He is still never in danger of losing his life or being seriously harmed. The car still accelerates more after he has shot the woman than it did before he shot her. Meanwhile taking that all at face value relies entirely on low res and heavily compressed video ta…
Now, if you are saying there is nothing in that video that makes you question some of your assumptions, we can stop this conversation now. You are too motivated to make 'your side' win.
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Friend. Just from pure logic if the path was blocked by ICE agent then her pressing a gas means attempt to run that ICE agent over. And if you look at the vid in slow motion, he does jump to the side to avoid a swipe. And I guess this is where the lawyers will have a field day. Best I can say is that he is lucky to have protection that comes from being LEO, where the standard is just different. To be fair, here it wa…
> To me it is not the question of whether they are right, but whether she had a good reason to be there. To me that's irrelevant - FWiW I come from a largish extended family with more than a century of history in various military and civil conflicts. Well trained personnel should handle the situation of a vehicle blocking traffic in a civilian non theatre of war context in a manner that doesn't lead to escalation. >…