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ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

wsj.com

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Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#71

Post by fiyec30375 »

watwut wrote: post #21
servo_sausage wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is already doing abominable things; how people react to additional surveillance is always related to what the state is actually doing with that information. So a system that supports the abduction of polital rivals (an actual human rights violation) is not the same as a system that supports the lawful arrest of someone breaking a law that's accepted as part of a democracy. I also think the scale of investment p…

ICE does not care about "lawful arrests". Like common, that is not their thing.

[flagged]

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#72

Post by aurareturn »

saubeidl wrote: post #60
KnuthIsGod wrote: post #2

When China did this, this was seen as a terrible violation of rights.... Now that we do this hundreds of times a day, it has become routine.

Let me quote the CEO of ycombinator. >You're thinking Chinese surveillance >US-based surveillance helps victims and prevents more victims https://xcancel.com/garrytan/status/1963310592615485955 American capitalists are ideologically driven hypocrites.

Are we allowed to criticize Garry Tan here?

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#73

Post by robocat »

close04 wrote: post #43
plagiarist wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably from the airport scanners and cameras I see everyone gleefully sticking their faces in. A savings of several minutes per flight!

Is this common? Airport scanners are usually face scanners. Iris scanners are almost always for employees with access to critical areas, not for travelers. I know Doha and Singapore airports use iris scanners at the security check. It's probably a growing trend, haven't seen any in the EU, is it already common in the US?

Iris scanners are not hard to implement from a few meters in a controlled environment like immigration.

I would assume Iris scanners are normal - but I couldn't find anything to corroborate that for immigration control in NZ (legally they can, and I thought the equipment did, but I couldn't verify).

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#74

Post by hwguy45 »

mlrtime wrote: post #67
concinds wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ICE and USBP are quite famously breaking many laws.

Unfortunately ICE has somewhat broad powers that allow them to enforce Federal laws that local LEOs cannot get away with. This should be challenged in a court.

Some say unfortunate, others say fortunate. It's a luxury belief to want to let people walk across the border and have no repercussions. Enforce the border, get all the illegals out.

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#75

Post by potato3732842 »

mirzap wrote: post #45

We like to think surveillance is something you can turn on for one problem and turn off afterward. In practice, that never happens. Once the machinery is in place, it stays and looks for new work. Tools justified today by "illegal immigration" won’t stop there. They drift into credit scoring, health insurance pricing, hiring and firing decisions, school admissions, housing access, travel permissions, banking, welfare…

Your comment should offend far more on HN than it will.

Heck, drop into any comment section about transportation infrastructure or environmental policy (or a few years ago public health policy as well) and there's all sorts of evil mustache twirling going on about how to use basically the same sort of technologies to deploy state violence in pursuit of some goal and they are either unable or unwilling to think a few steps ahead see that what they're advocating for will over time if not quickly lead to dark places as policy and priorities change incrementally.

As I'm concerned the people who are happy to peddle this stuff when it suits them are just as complicit as the people who are cheering for it right now when it's being used for "obviously bad" things.

>As Benjamin Franklin put it: those who give up essential liberty for temporary security deserve neither. The tradeoff rarely feels extreme at the time. It feels reasonable. By the time it isn’t, there’s no way back.

This quote is like a lightening rod for exactly the kind of people I'm talking about.

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#76

Post by potato3732842 »

stevenjgarner wrote: post #58
mirzap wrote: post #45

We like to think surveillance is something you can turn on for one problem and turn off afterward. In practice, that never happens. Once the machinery is in place, it stays and looks for new work. Tools justified today by "illegal immigration" won’t stop there. They drift into credit scoring, health insurance pricing, hiring and firing decisions, school admissions, housing access, travel permissions, banking, welfare…

There is a gradual chilling effect of self-censorship to mass surveillance and loss of anonymity. When you know you are being watched, you change your behavior. You don't visit the "wrong" protest, you don't meet with the "controversial" whistleblower, and you don't seek out the "unpopular" doctor. Total surveillance creates a "soft" totalitarianism where citizens police their own movements to avoid falling into a "h…

>Total surveillance creates a "soft" totalitarianism

And every step of the way the enablers will defend it on the grounds of "well you still technically can do the thing if you're willing to put up with some absurd risks or jump through some insane and impractical hoops specifically designed to be non-starters for many/most."

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#77

Post by metalman »

fiyec30375 wrote: post #71
watwut wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ICE does not care about "lawful arrests". Like common, that is not their thing.

[flagged]

comming through the door with a throw away account to monitor and disparage someones reputation under the increadably dubious cover of maintaining "standards" as a self appointed gramer/spelling enforcement officer. conventions are strictly a tool used by entrenched beurocracys to discredit voices that wont, or cant, conform to there little tedious "rules", and fully weaponised in situations where someone is to be detained and held against there will.The standard method bieng to choose one specific statement, taken out of context, to diagnose a person, and justify further action, for "saftey"

but our discussion centers on this whole process bieng automated and rendered down to an image, likely begining with a pantone # for skin tone

errors be fucking damned eh!

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#80

Post by heavyset_go »

stevenjgarner wrote: post #68
mirzap wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, I agree. And this is why I think mass surveillance isn’t just another technology to regulate. The chilling effect isn’t misuse; it’s the default: continuous, opaque observation changes behavior by itself. Because it’s centralized and unavoidable, people self-censor and conform; you don’t need arrests once everyone assumes they’re being scored. We don’t yet have long-run examples of fully algorithmic surveillance…

I think especially heinous is the use of Zero-Knowledge (ZK) Proof technologies where a centralized attestation authority (e.g. government agency) verifies compliance, and the verifier (e.g. business needing to prove compliance) relies on the ZK cryptographic proof of compliance without revealing the individual. This revocable privacy can unmask the real identity in the case of asserted "suspicious" activity. This is…

Tech-minded folk will clap like trained seals, as second-option bias takes over, when someone big on the fediverse suggests implementing ZKP algorithms to comply with identity attestation laws.

It's sad, but not surprising, to see. We'll design the most secure systems with the new shiny just to confirm whether the government believes you should be able post on Reddit or not.

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