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Drugmakers raise US prices on 350 medicines despite pressure

reuters.com

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Re: Drugmakers raise US prices on 350 medicines despite pressure

#71

Post by lenkite »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #51
lenkite wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it has a problem of supply being nowhere near demand, Get rid of the patents and this will solve itself in no time. > The insurance company has no hand in this. False. Insurance companies in the US own stock in big pharma firms like Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson, Eli Lilly, etc. They maintain substantial investment portfolios and generate returns on premiums and reserves. They also have voting rights as institutional i…

Yes, no one is stopping US (or other countries’) taxpayers from paying for all the drug trials so that the resulting medicines are in the public domain. > False. Insurance companies in the US own stock in big pharma firms like Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson, Eli Lilly, etc. They maintain substantial investment portfolios and generate returns on premiums and reserves. They also have voting rights as institutional investors…

> This is a wild assertion. The sum total of all 7 publicly listed insurance companies’ market caps is less than Eli Lilly, just one pharmaceutical company

Why are we using market cap as a metric ? Look at investment value.

From the NAIC report at https://content.naic.org/sites/default/files/capital-markets..., common stock holdings alone of U.S. insurance industry is roughly ~$1.2 trillion.

"Over the past 20 years, health care companies spent 95% of their net income on shareholder payouts, totaling up to $2.6 trillion, according to the research findings. Shareholder payouts also tripled over this period - a trend largely shaped by a few powerful pharmaceutical companies, the research team noted."

https://medicine.yale.edu/news-article/health-care-company-p...

Re: Drugmakers raise US prices on 350 medicines despite pressure

#72

Post by hnuser123456 »

olyjohn wrote: post #55
Workaccount2 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last year I needed to get blood work done, some of which may or may not be covered. It took me two weeks, dozens of phone calls, and multiple "escalations" to learn what would be covered and what the price would be if it wasn't Totally insane. The kicker is that after all that, the price I was billed wasn't even the price I was given (thankfully it was less though).

I just had some bloodwork done, myself. My provider accidentally billed insurance, which had lapsed due to being laid off. I got my "Explanation of benefits" and it was $1000 billed to them, but I was given a $500 "discount." So I only owed $500... Cash cost was $50. Makes no goddamn sense. Also I went in for a colonoscopy and an endoscopy. Insurance was billed for $14000. I got statements from 4 different doctors, a…

It makes perfect sense. The prices are inflated with a few extra zeroes to try to force people to get any job with insurance. The big numbers are just to scare people. You can also turn negotiating with the hospital into a full time job and get the real numbers. If you're too unhealthy to do either of these then you can just die I guess.

Re: Drugmakers raise US prices on 350 medicines despite pressure

#73

Post by PhotonHunter »

weslleyskah wrote: post #36
vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #4

"Rome said the companies seem to be maximizing prices while negotiating discounts behind the scenes with health and drug insurers and then setting yet another price for direct-to-consumer cash-pay sales." This describes the biggest problem in US healthcare. No clear and consistent pricing. If we had a real market, you would get a prescription and then go to the seller with the lowest price. And everybody would get th…

Here in Brazil, we have something called 'Genéricos.' These are essentially the same medications as the brand-name versions, produced with the same chemical ingredients, but they often cost half the price, sometimes even cheaper than that. Insanely comical.

Interestingly, while on-patent medications in the US tend to be significantly more expensive than elsewhere, generics in the US tend to be less expensive than generics available elsewhere.

Re: Drugmakers raise US prices on 350 medicines despite pressure

#74

Post by lenkite »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #67
lenkite wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The U.S taxpayer already pays for this. ~40% of FDA-approved drugs have direct NIH funding behind them. Nearly all modern drugs rely on NIH-funded foundational science. Taxpayer money additionally also floats through BARDA, DOD and DARPA. COVID mRNA vaccines (Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna) got billions in public funding. Yet, patents usually belong to the private company and prices are not capped as a condition of public…

Correct, people should be asking their federal politician why the US federal government is not spending the few billion dollars on drug trials to avoid having to pay extra to pharmaceutical companies. But instead, people rail at health insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies and others who can’t or won’t make a difference.

> But instead, people rail at health insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies and others who can’t or won’t make a difference.

Because this is the Corrupt Evil Nexus that continues to ensure that taxpayer funds and exclusive patents keep flowing to them, while keeping prices high. They buy political power via campaign financing by the bucketload and the congressman/woman changes their vote to kill/oppose bills that would make a difference. You can find dozens of examples. Do your own research. As an example, take a look at the voting for the bill to permit Medicare to negotiate drug prices. Look at who received bribes and from whom to vote "No".

Re: Drugmakers raise US prices on 350 medicines despite pressure

#75

Post by yibg »

mistrial9 wrote: post #5
bediger4000 wrote: post #2

But of a paywall there, can't tell if raw materials and precursors are costing more, or R&D spend is up, or employee wages and salaries have risen. Those are usually the "pressures" on prices. I can't understand what or who might be applying "pressure" to lower prices on oligopolistic pharmaceutical makers.

big Pharma has properties unlike many other business. The R&D is very, very expensive and, income is not directly related to expenses each year. The natural "moat" is such that only a relatively few, giant and wealthy, companies exist over time. ref- The Billion Dollar Molecule

Except many (most?) pharmas spend more on marketing and sales than R&D. Lobbying is another big expense for most of them.

Re: Drugmakers raise US prices on 350 medicines despite pressure

#76

Post by Forgeties79 »

itsdrewmiller wrote: post #41
weslleyskah wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Brazil, we have something called 'Genéricos.' These are essentially the same medications as the brand-name versions, produced with the same chemical ingredients, but they often cost half the price, sometimes even cheaper than that. Insanely comical.

Those are available in America too

Huge caveats. The drug manufacturer gets over a decade of market exclusivity which bars the selling of generic versions of the medication, which they can then extend again if they find another distinct use case for the medication (3 more years). This is why the Vyvanse generic took so long.

Re: Drugmakers raise US prices on 350 medicines despite pressure

#77

Post by blackbear_ »

hypeatei wrote: post #70
blackbear_ wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because US voters prefer the free market as opposed to government regulation and nationalized healthcare.

I'm assuming you're European and just want to make an "America bad" post because this is comically ignorant. There wouldn't be mountains of federal code to adhere to if that was the case. This is a trope among populists: pass legislation around , observe consequences of doing so, blame the "free market", repeat.

What other countries could teach the U.S. about bringing down drug prices

A look at how European governments negotiate with pharma companies helps explain why Americans pay more for prescription drugs.

https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2024/11/what-other-countri...

Re: Drugmakers raise US prices on 350 medicines despite pressure

#78

Post by Forgeties79 »

ebiester wrote: post #58
weslleyskah wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So this must be worldwide. It seems like the patents held by big pharma are the root of the corruption. What is the guarantee here? That the chemicals are pure, or just that the companies are getting their cut?

Generics can only be made after the patent expires. And due to pressure from western countries, these are enforced worldwide.

Which takes over a decade and can be extended multiple times if they find more uses for the drug.

Re: Drugmakers raise US prices on 350 medicines despite pressure

#79

Post by why-o-why »

mothballed wrote: post #69
olyjohn wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just had some bloodwork done, myself. My provider accidentally billed insurance, which had lapsed due to being laid off. I got my "Explanation of benefits" and it was $1000 billed to them, but I was given a $500 "discount." So I only owed $500... Cash cost was $50. Makes no goddamn sense. Also I went in for a colonoscopy and an endoscopy. Insurance was billed for $14000. I got statements from 4 different doctors, a…

I don't think the hospital expects to actually ever get paid what they bill out, or anything at all, if it's not paid onsite or by insurance.

>> I don't think the hospital expects to actually ever get paid what they bill out

OH YES THEY ABSOLUTELY DO!

When I was in-between jobs I had a medical emergency and I was on the ACA around the first year it was offered. I was billed above medicare rates so I was on the hook for ~40k after out of pocket max. They told me this limit is what insurance has to cover but hospitals can still bill above it. First they told me they could work on the prices and asked for my last 5 years tax returns. When they saw that I had dividend payments they said they couldn't help me and I owed them the $40k. I think that was the problem because even though I wasn't working in their mind if I had investments then technically I was not in need so they set up four-year payment plan and paid every penny with no cost reduction.

I probably did something wrong but to this day I didn't know what I would have done differently. The only people I could talk to were the hospital and they only cared about the hospital.

Re: Drugmakers raise US prices on 350 medicines despite pressure

#80

Post by ericmay »

hnuser123456 wrote: post #72
olyjohn wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just had some bloodwork done, myself. My provider accidentally billed insurance, which had lapsed due to being laid off. I got my "Explanation of benefits" and it was $1000 billed to them, but I was given a $500 "discount." So I only owed $500... Cash cost was $50. Makes no goddamn sense. Also I went in for a colonoscopy and an endoscopy. Insurance was billed for $14000. I got statements from 4 different doctors, a…

It makes perfect sense. The prices are inflated with a few extra zeroes to try to force people to get any job with insurance. The big numbers are just to scare people. You can also turn negotiating with the hospital into a full time job and get the real numbers. If you're too unhealthy to do either of these then you can just die I guess.

Well, there is that. But there is also the fact that they charge you or your insurance company to smooth out other costs like $2,000,000.00 cancer treatment or for people who show up to the hospital, don’t have insurance, and the hospital has to treat them.

I’m reaching the point where I don’t really care if it’s private or public, but what we are doing today is the worst of both worlds. It either needs to be fully private, maybe with mandatory insurance purchase, or it needs to be fully public, though that has its own baggage.

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