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The battle to stop clever people betting

economist.com

71–80 of 134 posts

Re: The battle to stop clever people betting

#71
post #42
post #26

I would love to see the gambling industry beaten back into whatever holes they slithered out of. If you want to gamble it should be in some smokey back room at a liquor store. I'm surprised the christian right isn't making more of a fuss about gambling, but I guess they're getting greased to look the other way.

Lately it feels like more and more people who are not religious invoke Christ to tell believers what they must do.

Lately it feels like more and more religious people invoke Christ to tell non-believers what they must do, so I think it's only fair.

Re: The battle to stop clever people betting

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it’s true that many (most?) people won’t have a problem, a minority have their lives ruined as well as family members, and the risk of that is reason enough to regulate it. This isn’t all that different from alcohol.

Okay, but gambling is heavily regulated...so that isn't the discussion here. You believe that alcohol should be banned then?

[deleted]

Re: The battle to stop clever people betting

#73
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but gambling is heavily regulated...so that isn't the discussion here. You believe that alcohol should be banned then?

The gambling the article ia about is not regulated. Saying "heavily regulated" is just very far from truth.

First, most states ban many forms of gambling...so I would call that heavy regulation. Second, whilst the regulatory approach in legal states differs - for example, NJ...for various reasons...is one of the most strict - the overall level is high.

Most states have self-exclude/no-market lists, most states require links to gambling addiction helplines in adverts and within product, responsible gaming features are required in every state de facto (and providers are going beyond this in reality) so this is deposit/wager/loss/time limits, reality checks have effectively become mandatory, some states have hard limits on total wagers or require ACK over limit, deposit alerts are also moving to mandatory, there are limits on some kind of machines and how they operate (this is a massive difference to casino gambling, IGT designed physical machines that only appealed to addicts, that experience can now be 100% controlled online), etc.

I don't think people are aware that state regulatory bodies exist and are doing a huge amount. If you compare with European countries, I would say that providers are probably more aware of their responsible gaming function (afaik, many providers have responsible gaming goals that impact board-level compensation, so in the past year you had providers blanket limiting customers based on certain categories...which, I will add, is not an ideal approach, no regulator asked them to do this). In addition, there are some aspects of regulation that, afaik, don't happen anywhere else: for example, most state regulators are checking code that providers are deploying to ensure it is compliant.

This change in regulatory approach is largely a function of things moving online. To be blunt, when Adelson died then the old approach of functionally limited regulation was over because no-one was being paid to advocate for it. Online gaming also enables far more controls over the experience i.e. you can enforce hard limits (as opposed to a pit boss telling someone to stop). I can only assume that most people are completely unaware that this is happening though.

The difference with Polymarket and co, which are regulated as financial firms, should be quite obvious too. People are gambling on their site, they are doing none of the above.

Re: The battle to stop clever people betting

#74

As the middle class continues to shrink in the West the gambling crisis will only get worse. It has to be understood by older people that for many young people the only way to afford a lifestyle previously achievable in many cities with a basic job is to win the lottery.

Gambling addiction is a pretty certain way to become poor though.

The new age gambler logic would be if you know you can't afford a house through saving, the goal will always be out of reach, so you are already poor and will always be, so you might as well gamble. It's the age of "financial nihilism".

Re: The battle to stop clever people betting

#75
post #59

If you want to bet, you could do so in regulated markets like financial markets. This isn't a smartass remark "stock market is gambling". I literally mean that the financial markets went through all this bullshit 100 years ago, and came up with rules to make them fairer. For example, you won't be blocked from the stock market just because you do really well.

It's a bad analogy because the incentives are totally different. With sports betting (of the type in the article) you're betting against the bookmaker. If you win, they lose, and vice versa. Obviously it's better for them that you lose. With financial markets you are betting against other users. The ones running the market take fees on each transaction, so they don't care whether you win or lose. Their incentive is j…

I always understood bookmaking as the house making money on the vig. They don't care who wins or loses. They just want to make sure there's an equal number and they take their percentage off the top of all the bets. Too many people betting the over? Move the line.

Re: The battle to stop clever people betting

#76
post #70

If you want to bet, you could do so in regulated markets like financial markets. This isn't a smartass remark "stock market is gambling". I literally mean that the financial markets went through all this bullshit 100 years ago, and came up with rules to make them fairer. For example, you won't be blocked from the stock market just because you do really well.

Neo brokers offering highly leveraged index funds securities with very low trading fees and convenient mobile apps are absolutely indiscernible from gambling. Some people bet on the NASDAQ like other people bet on race horses. It might be even worse, because how can you stop people from trading securities?

> Neo brokers offering highly leveraged index funds securities

These, eToro and the like, aren't "brokers" so much as online betting platforms for the stock market.

A typical broker like Interactive Brokers, Charles Schwab etc. acts as a gateway to the market, other traders act as counterparties, and is bound by strict regulation

These "neo brokers" as you call them don't. Those "securities" you're buying are offered by the broker, at a price set by the broker, the broker may be the counterparty and they can't be transferred. Just like a casino.

This is all laid out in the terms and conditions for anybody who cares to read them, e.g. [0], sections 7.1 and 17.

If you want to gamble based on stock prices using leverage, at least do it right: use derivatives. They're leveraged but thoroughly regulated and traded on central exchanges.

[0]: https://www.etoro.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/eToro-EU-Te...

Re: The battle to stop clever people betting

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while the negative impact of that loss on their livelihood is likely to be larger than positive impact of your gain on your livelihood. What's your point? /s Negative things happening to other people is "0," as long as you are getting something from it. In some cases, it may actually be "good," if you don't like the people suffering negative consequences. This is not a trait that only applies to gambling. Almost ev…

Not parent but I think the point they’re making is that there is no productive value from gambling (regulated or not). Unlike, say, plane manufacturing which provides a positive good to society and also benefits from heavy regulation.

It was a joke. Sorry. I keep forgetting sarcasm doesn't translate.

Re: The battle to stop clever people betting

#79
post #26

I would love to see the gambling industry beaten back into whatever holes they slithered out of. If you want to gamble it should be in some smokey back room at a liquor store. I'm surprised the christian right isn't making more of a fuss about gambling, but I guess they're getting greased to look the other way.

I don't look at gambling in a religious or moral perspective at all, but rather as a predatory business. It's like any other dopamine hit, the casinos manage joy and expectation, just enough, so that people keep coming back until they are hopelessly addicted, broke, or broken.

The problem with gambling is that the house never loses, and when they are losing, they can kick you out and call you a cheater. At the very least, there needs to be severe restrictions on what casinos can do to people who are winning, and rein them in so that they don't use their money, power, influence, and heavy-handed security, in ways that are grossly unfair to the consumer. The power is too much in the hands of the casino, and really needs to swing back towards the consumer, otherwise people get taken for a ride, literally and figuratively.

Re: The battle to stop clever people betting

#80
post #76
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neo brokers offering highly leveraged index funds securities with very low trading fees and convenient mobile apps are absolutely indiscernible from gambling. Some people bet on the NASDAQ like other people bet on race horses. It might be even worse, because how can you stop people from trading securities?

> Neo brokers offering highly leveraged index funds securities These, eToro and the like, aren't "brokers" so much as online betting platforms for the stock market. A typical broker like Interactive Brokers, Charles Schwab etc. acts as a gateway to the market, other traders act as counterparties, and is bound by strict regulation These "neo brokers" as you call them don't. Those "securities" you're buying are offered…

I was thinking of platforms like Trade Republic, and it's my understanding that they are backed by a licensed bank and what you trade are indeed regulated derivatives. Have I been misinformed?
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