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Librarians tired of being accused of hiding secret books that were made up by AI

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Re: Librarians tired of being accused of hiding secret books that were made up by AI

#71

Post by kachapopopow »

piva00 wrote: post #57
kachapopopow wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just because something is public doesn't mean it should be shared with everyone, imagine you and your (ex: facebook group) have a nice spot near a public lake that you worked to clean up and even put a nice fireplace / furniture around it and then some tiktoker comes and says check out this amazing spot and now it's ruined. Yes it's public, anyone outside the group can find and see it, but it's clearly meant to be en…

> imagine you and your (ex: facebook group) have a nice spot near a public lake that you worked to clean up and even put a nice fireplace / furniture around it and then some tiktoker comes and says check out this amazing spot and now it's ruined. This happens all the time though, and it's expected it might happen when you do it. I live nearby a couple of lakes within a nice little forest, me and some friends found a…

it was just the result of me trying to express the loss of respect for public spaces / content and content in as little words as possible I could go on forever writing an entire book about changes in the definition of public and private and how disrespecting such spaces / content is how we end up with only powerful people having such things while the rest lose it entirely as they fight over whatever remains.

Re: Librarians tired of being accused of hiding secret books that were made up by AI

#72

Post by kachapopopow »

staticman2 wrote: post #56
kachapopopow wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just because something is public doesn't mean it should be shared with everyone, imagine you and your (ex: facebook group) have a nice spot near a public lake that you worked to clean up and even put a nice fireplace / furniture around it and then some tiktoker comes and says check out this amazing spot and now it's ruined. Yes it's public, anyone outside the group can find and see it, but it's clearly meant to be en…

When you switch the topic to some analogy about a spot in meat space by some lake it derails the conversation as to whether your analogy is on point rather than the conversation topic.

it's simply a way to express and expand meaning of a statement without having to write an entire essay backing such statement.

Re: Librarians tired of being accused of hiding secret books that were made up by AI

#74

Post by WillAdams »

yesfitz wrote: post #66
WillAdams wrote: post #39

A library which was known for having a "last policy" system in place, should not have this difficulty. I would further argue that any library should be willing to accept a copy of any book which they do not have and safely store it until someone wishes to borrow it. I'm still salty that I had to buy a copy of Glenn Reid's _Thinking in PostScript_ when a local library discarded it from their stacks (there are other bo…

Not sure if you've already explored this avenue, but you can usually request media that your library doesn't have through the interlibrary loan[1]. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlibrary_loan

Yes, but the principle here is that a library (system) should function as a repository for physical embodiments of knowledge, and should not be discarding books.

We're going through this at my workplace as well, converting from cubicles to an open floor plan, so workspaces which had decades of accumulated books are being cleared out --- I've rescued as many as I can justify from the recycling bin, but that's a tiny portion, so I'm feeling this sort of decision quite viscerally.

Re: Librarians tired of being accused of hiding secret books that were made up by AI

#75

Post by yesfitz »

WillAdams wrote: post #74
yesfitz wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you've already explored this avenue, but you can usually request media that your library doesn't have through the interlibrary loan[1]. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlibrary_loan

Yes, but the principle here is that a library (system) should function as a repository for physical embodiments of knowledge, and should not be discarding books. We're going through this at my workplace as well, converting from cubicles to an open floor plan, so workspaces which had decades of accumulated books are being cleared out --- I've rescued as many as I can justify from the recycling bin, but that's a tiny p…

I think the library system does a good job of that. For example, here's the WorldCat entry for Thinking in PostScript[1] that shows its 4 editions physically available at 107 libraries. It's also available as an eBook and (since 2024) on Archive.org[2]

Which highlights why Archive.org is so important as an archival and lending library. It's like the idealized version of microfiche. The content of the books have been made so small that not only can they be trivially stored, but beamed to your pocket at any time, almost anywhere in the world.

There are at least ~158 Million books in existence as of 2023[3], and between 2 and 4 million added every year. To ask that each library be an unopinionated store of physical books is too much, and reduces their function to a well-organized warehouse, when the real power of libraries are its librarians. They are research specialists available to anyone and everyone, and well worth a conversation the next time you want to know just about anything.

1: https://search.worldcat.org/title/22114396 2: https://archive.org/details/thinkinginpostsc0000reid 3: https://isbndb.com/blog/how-many-books-are-in-the-world/

Re: Librarians tired of being accused of hiding secret books that were made up by AI

#76

Post by nickthegreek »

kachapopopow wrote: post #69
nkrisc wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s public or it’s not public.

boiling things down to a binary output has always turned out great I presume

In this case it does. I use that same spot next to eh lake to rest with my wife and watch the ducks and appreciate nature. But then you can into the public area, changed it and added furniture and even a fireplace! Treating it like private land owned by you and then you get upset when others use it. There is an inherent disrespect and narcissism in the example you provided.

Re: Librarians tired of being accused of hiding secret books that were made up by AI

#77

Post by thrill »

“The citation seems to have been included in many lower quality papers—likely due to laziness and sloppiness rather than an intent to deceive.”

Yeah … no. If you use a citation and you didn’t read the article yourself then it is absolutely intentional deception, and it should be treated as such.

Re: Librarians tired of being accused of hiding secret books that were made up by AI

#78

Post by nkrisc »

kachapopopow wrote: post #69
nkrisc wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s public or it’s not public.

boiling things down to a binary output has always turned out great I presume

Well, in this case it is. Regardless the analogy is beside the point because this problem has a technical solution: Bluesky could disallow posts from being embedded per the author’s request.

Also, does that message reflect the author’s preferences at the time they write that post, or is it possible it was enabled after Gizmodo embedded it?

Re: Librarians tired of being accused of hiding secret books that were made up by AI

#79

Post by nkrisc »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #55
kachapopopow wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just because something is public doesn't mean it should be shared with everyone, imagine you and your (ex: facebook group) have a nice spot near a public lake that you worked to clean up and even put a nice fireplace / furniture around it and then some tiktoker comes and says check out this amazing spot and now it's ruined. Yes it's public, anyone outside the group can find and see it, but it's clearly meant to be en…

If I host an event at a public park and hang up a sign "no journalists allowed, no telling anyone about this event, it's our little secret" I don't think it's reasonable to expect that to be honored. I wouldn't be offended to see that reported in the local paper. Quite the opposite.

At a public park I think you have no more right to keep it secret than someone else has to talk about it to others.

Re: Librarians tired of being accused of hiding secret books that were made up by AI

#80

Post by estimator7292 »

k310 wrote: post #6

I visited the local library (California foothills) during a “book sale”, and what didn’t sell was left out in boxes, either for cheap or free. What didn’t move was destined for the landfill. I was aghast, but without enough room to take in the strays. Real estate is unforgiving. I am in favor of “little free libraries” [0] where books circulate freely, and if they aren’t returned, hopefully are read and not destroyed…

I've actually worked in libraries. Public libraries are not historic archives preserving knowledge in perpetuity. You want an academic or research library.

Public libraries are nothing more than a group-buy scheme. Everyone throws tax money in the pot and the library buys books and media for everyone to use. Since one can't fit infinite physical objects in a finite space, the collection must be continually pruned and curated. Library systems track circulation figures and unpopular works get weeded.

In my case, weeded books go on the $.50 shelf. If they stay there they go to a different organization for bulk sale, or eventually trashed.

The harsh reality is that there is an almost infinite number of books. The vast majority of which will never be lasting or consequential works. Nobody needs a copy of a 1998 vampire smut thriller, and the world is not worse off for destroying your copy.

Librarians do, however, try to keep notable and important works in the collection regardless of circulation. Some books, but only some, are important enough to stick around forever, and in large part they do.

Libraries only get rid of materials that aren't being used and which take up space for materials that will be used. The goal isn't to preserve knowledge, it's to allow every citizen the same access to knowledge and entertainment as their neighbors. It's to use your population's limited resources to procure the most needed/desired materials for their money. They're optimizing accessibility and foot traffic because that's their purpose.

True archival happens elsewhere

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