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The ancient monuments saluting the winter solstice

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Re: The ancient monuments saluting the winter solstice

#71

Post by hammock »

gwbas1c wrote: post #52
lb1lf wrote: post #31

These are all over the place in Norway (as are they everywhere else, presumably!) When we moved to the island we currently live on, our address was in a road called 'Solsteinen' (The Sun Stone), but I didn't think anything of it until I realized that the roughly hewn stone serving as the property limit marker was juuu-uuust touched by the sun on Winter Solstice. Aha. A quick call to the local archaeologist confirmed…

> as are they everywhere else, presumably! They aren't "all over the place" in the US, and I certainly don't have a local archaeologist that I can just call up. FWIW: The Northeastern US is quite recent with human presence. It wasn't settled until after the last ice age. Pretty much anything old is celebrated because there is so little of anything old.

> They aren't "all over the place" in the US, and I certainly don't have a local archaeologist that I can just call up… The Northeastern US is quite recent with human presence

Fun fact, New England has at least 71 different stonework “prayer sites” that are all astrologically aligned.

Two of the most notable are King Philip’s Cave (Sharon, MA) with a stone aperture through which a "dagger of light" appears specifically during the winter solstice, and Pole Hill (Gloucester, MA) which has fixed boulders that align with the summer solstice sunrise/sunset and the winter solstice sunrise.

Here is a research paper talking about all of them: https://neara.org/pdf/wantofanail.pdf

There are lots of historical preservationists in New England that you can call up. If you want my help finding one let me know where you are located.

Re: The ancient monuments saluting the winter solstice

#73

Post by lemonberry »

hammock wrote: post #71
gwbas1c wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as are they everywhere else, presumably! They aren't "all over the place" in the US, and I certainly don't have a local archaeologist that I can just call up. FWIW: The Northeastern US is quite recent with human presence. It wasn't settled until after the last ice age. Pretty much anything old is celebrated because there is so little of anything old.

> They aren't "all over the place" in the US, and I certainly don't have a local archaeologist that I can just call up… The Northeastern US is quite recent with human presence Fun fact, New England has at least 71 different stonework “prayer sites” that are all astrologically aligned. Two of the most notable are King Philip’s Cave (Sharon, MA) with a stone aperture through which a "dagger of light" appears specifical…

This is really interesting, thank you.

Re: The ancient monuments saluting the winter solstice

#74

Post by kzrdude »

INTPenis wrote: post #46

What I find cute is that every year on the 21st of december a small number of modern day pagans and nature lovers gather at Ales Stenar here in southern Sweden and watch the sun rise over the center stone of the "ship". We bring thermos bottles, some bring kids, pets, and we just stand there in silence watching the sun. Afaik it's not coordinated, it's just a bunch of people having the same idea every year.

That's.. neat. I guess lots more people show up for summer solstice though? Or are they occupied with the mainstream-pagan Midsummer celebrations then?

Re: The ancient monuments saluting the winter solstice

#75

Post by praveen9920 »

There is a temple in India called “Konark Sun Temple”, meant to be worship place of sun god.

It is built east-west to signify sun’s journey. The temple has a wheel sort of structure which kinda acts as sundial with minute level accuracy.

In India, difference in day time between winter and summer solstices is minimal ( 3.5 hours ), I guess it doesn’t signify anything major close to equator.

Re: The ancient monuments saluting the winter solstice

#76

Post by Loughla »

designerarvid wrote: post #50
andrewinardeer wrote: post #12

Where I live, I find it wild that there is a 5.75-hour difference between the summer and winter solstices, nearly a quarter of a whole day.

We’re I live it is a little bit more than 21 hours. Quite noticeable.

I lived briefly where the sun doesn't really shift that much in the sky. I didn't think about it at the time, but that constant noon day sun really messed with my sense of time passing. Weird.

Re: The ancient monuments saluting the winter solstice

#77

Post by alephnerd »

praveen9920 wrote: post #75

There is a temple in India called “Konark Sun Temple”, meant to be worship place of sun god. It is built east-west to signify sun’s journey. The temple has a wheel sort of structure which kinda acts as sundial with minute level accuracy. In India, difference in day time between winter and summer solstices is minimal ( 3.5 hours ), I guess it doesn’t signify anything major close to equator.

Depends on where in India you are from. Winter solstice times with chillai kalan [0] which is treated as a headache. Everything basically shuts down in the Western Himalayan regions of India around this time - from Ladakh to Kashmir to Upper Himachal and Uttarakhand [1], though it has gotten much drier/warmer compared to the stories my parents or grandparents told.

[0] - https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/j-k/snow-rain-in-higher-re...

[1] - https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/himachal/snow-likely-on-de...

Re: The ancient monuments saluting the winter solstice

#78

Post by mapcars »

BurningFrog wrote: post #63
voidUpdate wrote: post #3

How did ancient cultures know when the solstice was? If you didn't tell me it was the 21st, I don't know how I'd be able to tell you other than by carefully measuring the sunrise and sunset times

Pre technology, the sky was very central to life. Sunlight, rain and snow dictated much of your life (and death), and you probably considered the sun, moon and five planets as gods. You and I personally may not have kept track, but our local religious leader did, and maybe the even staged a ceremony at the winter solstice to ask the sun to make the days longer.

>and you probably considered the sun, moon and five planets as gods.

I find it strange that today knowing much more about sun and moon we don't consider them as gods. Today we know for sure they are the origin of all life on this planet and yet many cultures decided to go for an abstract intangeable entities instead of what is directly in front of us and can't be debated.

Re: The ancient monuments saluting the winter solstice

#79

Post by empath75 »

voidUpdate wrote: post #3

How did ancient cultures know when the solstice was? If you didn't tell me it was the 21st, I don't know how I'd be able to tell you other than by carefully measuring the sunrise and sunset times

They didn't.

They didn't like go out on Dec 21st, and look where the sun was and mark it. They didn't even have calendars like that. They watched the sun every day, and waited until it stopped being lower in the sky at it's highest point in the day (or whatever other sign of the solstice they wanted to use), and marked that angle and built whatever viewport they wanted (a door, tunnel, etc).

Then they could just go wherever they built the thing that pointed at that point in the sky, and go, oh, okay, the solstice is soon, or just happened, or whatever and plan accordingly.

It actually wasn't really accurate to the day, anyway. There are a few days on either side of the solstice where the effect is basically the same for the viewer.

Something to keep in mind is that this isn't only useful for determining the exact date of the winter solstice, which they may not have even cared that much about. You can see roughly where you are in the year on either side of the solstice by looking at how far out of alignment the sun is on a given day. So it could be useful throughout the fall and even well into the winter for gauging the passing of time. People didn't need to plan day by day or even week by week, but they did need to do things in roughly the right part of the year.

People act like this is some unexplainable advanced technology, and anybody can just do this with a stick and some rocks.

Re: The ancient monuments saluting the winter solstice

#80

Post by franze »

srean wrote: post #17
franze wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and yes, the maths fails when you are super super high north or south

Hey! nice little useful web page. I like the minimalism of it. Does the math fail because of not considering (i) equation of time and (ii) oblateness of the Earth ?

because mathematically a day can have more than 24h daylight and less than 0

fixed it

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