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BMW Patents Proprietary Screws That Only Dealerships Can Remove

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Re: BMW Patents Proprietary Screws That Only Dealerships Can Remove

#71
post #70

Chinese manufacturers: hundred of different companies competing in the free market with a relaxed attitude to intellectual property, producing extremely cheap customer friendly vehicles. This system is called "communism". Western manufacturers: increasing lock-in to preserve revenues of middlemen

Communism = "different companies competing in the free market"?

Re: BMW Patents Proprietary Screws That Only Dealerships Can Remove

#73
post #71
post #70

Chinese manufacturers: hundred of different companies competing in the free market with a relaxed attitude to intellectual property, producing extremely cheap customer friendly vehicles. This system is called "communism". Western manufacturers: increasing lock-in to preserve revenues of middlemen

Communism = "different companies competing in the free market"?

That's the irony of the post you are answering to.

Re: BMW Patents Proprietary Screws That Only Dealerships Can Remove

#74
post #71
post #70

Chinese manufacturers: hundred of different companies competing in the free market with a relaxed attitude to intellectual property, producing extremely cheap customer friendly vehicles. This system is called "communism". Western manufacturers: increasing lock-in to preserve revenues of middlemen

Communism = "different companies competing in the free market"?

I shouldn't do jokes on HN, but if you look at the Chinese car market, it looks exactly like free market competition. Consolidation will come eventually, as it did to Europe with Stellantis.

https://www.carscoops.com/2025/09/chart-with-chinese-car-bra...

Re: BMW Patents Proprietary Screws That Only Dealerships Can Remove

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also advised some Chinese manufacturers to produce cheap, dummy home appliances and then sell to the Western market with a bit of mark-up, as more people are fed up with the smart ones. Not sure anyone is going to try though. Looks like everyone is in the data business.

Electronics are cheaper than high quality electromechanical stuff, and allow you to give any product a veneer of sophistication and modernity that the modern consumer still perceives as being a sign of higher quality. Our love of blinken-lights will be our downfall.

And you can make very shiny out-of-the-box finishes even in quite shitty materials that will decay quite quickly: soft plastics going gooey, white plastics yellowing, all plastics becoming brittle, poor anti-rust coatings, soft paintwork, etc, etc.

Re: BMW Patents Proprietary Screws That Only Dealerships Can Remove

#77
post #63
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how "oh third parties can get a bit for it" is really an acceptable answer. Lightning cables are readily available but that wasn't consumer-friendly enough for the EU. I think the parent is right, let Ford try this and see how quickly the EU goes after them, because this is quite frankly very anti-consumer.

That is a different legislation. Ford in the EU is a european car manufacturer with around 100 years of history, so yeah, I think the answer will be the same as for BMW. And sure, car makers have special status - they have just recently secured a huge win in reducing the scope of emmission-related fines, which will now be charged from 10g/km instead of 0g/km from 2035. But this too applies to every manufacturer.

> That is a different legislation.

I understand the legislation is different, but the anti-consumer sentiment is the same, but worse in this case since I have a feeling the screw bit won't be nearly as available and cheap as Lightning cables are.

> Ford in the EU is a european car manufacturer

An American company with factories in the EU. I don't think it's the same as a company headquartered in the EU.

Re: BMW Patents Proprietary Screws That Only Dealerships Can Remove

#78
post #51

That already is old news, lots of manufacturers do that. For example, the Passat 3B and later platforms introduced proprietary screws for the wheels and brakes, so you weren't able to change them yourself. Same for all kinds of sensors that will go rogue when the car is turned off and you change a sensor on the engine. All firmware gradually was modified each generation to allow less modifications and less self repai…

I think you’re seeing malice where none exists, particularly in those VW examples. VWs have always required a lot of special tools to work on, but usually for good engineering reasons making things smaller, lighter, simpler, and easier to manufacture. They will happily sell the tools to the public, and for most VW models, a few hundred dollars worth of special tools is all you need for any DIY repair- I personally ha…

I am not sure if you wanna go into discussing Diesel engines now, especially with all the engine software problems when it comes to AdBlue, and when it comes to Dieselgate, which, by decision of all involved courts, was malice.

While I agree that some models improved when it comes to performance (especially in the 1.8 - 2.0 Turbo range as that's the sweet spot when it comes to cc) and technical failures, I would still say that all newer models have more problems with software. So much that it's really not even necessary to create these problems even in regards to regulatory requirements or safety compliance.

Just thinking about the messy code that I've seen to pass ASIL-D requirements makes my skin boil.

Re: BMW Patents Proprietary Screws That Only Dealerships Can Remove

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's why I love AliExpress. It evens the playing fieldin such cases, to some degree.

If in Europe, they're going to "fix" that with a €3 flat fee per item to cover "import duty" under €150 in July (on top of VAT which is already charged since 2021). Which a huge scam, because there's no way that an average €10 Euro widget has a 30% tariff on it, and I'm pretty sure that very many things things are 0%.

3 euro is actually reasonable just to even out the delivery costs - it is usually cheaper to post something from China than it is intra-EU, because of the international postal union rules.
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