How long before the EU comes out with a social credit system like China? How long before the EU has its own version of China's Great Firewall?
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The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt
71–80 of 300 posts
Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
They are not the best because they no longer support port forwarding. Their IPs are low quality and get you flagged as suspicious.
Which VPN provider doesn’t have their addresses flagged? I know a few offer “residential” IP addresses (for quite the premium), but as I understand it, these are a bit of a grey area and are also usually shared, so usually just a matter of time until they’re banned or flagged as proxy/shared/anonymiser.
The financial incentives for VPNs as they get bigger cause them to both put as many subscribers on the same IP as possible and to share IPs over the entire subscriber base. It's possible for a VPN to sacrifice profit to avoid being detected as easily.
Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt
#73So, they succeed and repeal it a third time. What can be done to stop them from trying again and again and again until they get away with it?
Not much really, unless the EU takes a big turn to the left. Which is unfortunately not something that's likely to happen anytime soon.
Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt
#74I love The Internet, it came into my life as I became an adult, I’ve watched it change the world, and I find attempts to lock it down to be abhorrent. I also grew up in a world where intelligence fieldcraft was an in-person activity where it was just about possible for one side to keep track of the other side, or at least hold some kind of leverage, counter-leverage, and counter-counter-leverage to stop the Cold War…
>I sympathize with nation states’ urge to be able to see what’s going on online, but I hate the way they’re going about it. How do we balance a free Internet against a need to crack down on foreign influence? and more importantly - whose influence? how do we pick whom do we ally ourselves with and who we go against? How do we prevent such system from being abused to just entrench current powers that be, and stifle ge…
Security services qualitatively have as many fuckups to their name as they do successes. I was listening to a podcast last week about British undercover police fathering children with the women they were undercover with. If the position of the anti-Chat-Control people is that we should reject not just the backdoors but also — on the basis that they just can’t be trusted — the whole idea of a national, secret security service, then they should be open and say so.
Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Education. Education. Education. The problem is that many of the most highly educated people are the ones fully supporting censorship in the fight against disinformation. Higher education has become a bastion of illiberal ideology.
I think it’s because once you educate yourself, you see how the masses behave and it’s like the ultimate revelation. They are consumers. Feeders. They want to be told what to think. Most people don’t even have an internal monologue and many people say they don’t even think much, not even a thought. You thought for yourself. You used your brain. But you are outnumbered. Vastly.
> Most people don’t even have an internal monologue
Is there any scientific indication that whether private thoughts are automatically verbalized actually has an impact on cognitive activity or function?
Also where do you get this idea that most people lack an internal monologue? Afaik research indicates that totally lacking verbal thinking is very rare.
Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
They are not the best because they no longer support port forwarding. Their IPs are low quality and get you flagged as suspicious.
Are you expecting a public IPv4 from a VPN?
A VPN provider could easily support Port Control Protocol / NAT-PMP without giving each VPN client its own public IPv4.
Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt
#77And hopefully this gets voted down like all the other laws. Even if it passes, it will probably be repealed or just not enforced within some member nations. At least this is talked about and discussed... unlike in China, or Russia, or the US's own 20+-years-and-still-going-patriot act.
A reasonable point about the discussion, but I doubt it is a meaningful one. The intention of these international agreements is that they circumvent the laws by moving data out of jurisdiction and have someone else do the surveillance, right? I have to assume that the EU is doing metadata analysis. All the talking is just about bringing it in house.
On another topic, I don't know how mullvad intends to avoid compliance.
"If VPNs are included, and if Going Dark becomes law, we will never spy on our customers no matter what."
Saying "we can't give you logs because we don't have them" just means that they need to start logging or gtfo of the EU.
Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are already MANY laws in the EU and Germany for me regarding privacy. All the proposals are blatantly illegal in Germany for example. Just recently our highest court declared large scale logging of DNS request as "very likely" illegal.
Similarly, the 4th amendment to the US Constitution reads in full: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." "papers, and effec…
SCOTUS will simply say that since the constitution didn't explicitly state that electronic data and communications was protected, then it isn't.
Even if it did explicitly say that this information is protected, SCOTUS would just make up a new interpretation that would allow surveillance anyway. Same as they made up presidential immunity, even though all men being subject to the law was pretty explicit purpose of the founding of america. I mean, they had a whole revolution about it.
Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt
#79In the ancient Greek colony of Locri, any who proposed a new law would do so with a rope around their neck, if the law was voted down, they would get hanged. Food for thought.
Intentionally misinformed citizens continued to charge the streets demanding "essential services" like barber shops need to be reopened and to intentionally dismantle and resist against all government protections on public safety during the pandemic (like wearing a mask during an active spreading event), literally while their grandparents and relatives slowly and painfully died on respirators in hospitals largely agreeing with the same notion of covid prevention measures being "pointless". They then attacked the institutions that provided either medical treatments or provided assistance, and continue to promote that culture. Lemmings to a cause they dont understand for a message they know is false.
That is to say, there's always someone ready to make zealots die for a cause. IMO, that change would only shift in favor of the most radical extremists who see human life as expendable rather than cause anyone in power to think twice about pushing their ideologies onto masses.
Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt
#80I once liked the EU. Well still do it because of the east to travel without borders. But it's leadership is something dangerous and may shape to some form of dictatorship or entity that does not serve its people. But a small minority consisting out of some large companies.
I think EU will manage without you liking it. But painting its leadership as the one trying to shape dictatorship is incredible ignorant. Europe is preparing for the Russia invasion from one side, and betrayal by the US from the other. A country serving small minority of large companies is the best description of the US, not the EU.
Wow. I cannot fathom anyone thinking this, but also I am doubtful the EU pays for propaganda on HN so it is what it is I guess. After von der Leyen's corruption and the fast pace into totalitarianism against the will of the population nonetheless. Just wow.