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Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

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Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#71

Post by tedunangst »

sand500 wrote: post #11
ZeroConcerns wrote: post #5

Well, Valve got seriously concerned about the Windows Store, like, a decade ago, since that could have reduced the stranglehold of Steam on the gaming marketplace. Turns out that the usual Microsoft incompetence-and-ADHD have kind-of eliminated that threat all by itself. Also: turns out that, if you put enough effort into it, Linux is actually a quite-usable gaming platform. Still: are consumers better off today than…

Not just usable, better performant than Windows too. https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2025/06/games-run-faster-on-s...

Why do you link that article but not this one?

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/11/ars-benchmarks-show-s...

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#72

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #49
modeless wrote: post #4

Valve's hardware products will be successful but remain niche. And that's ok. They are unwilling to pursue business models that require locking down hardware in order to subsidize it with software purchases, and I love that about them. As a result their hardware will always be more expensive. They will not outcompete Meta in VR or Sony/MS/Nintendo in consoles because price is king for the mass market. Valve's hardwar…

In 2025 none of Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo sell their consoles at a loss. They're sold for very slim margins, which is what I assume Valve will do with the Steam machine. I expect the Steam Machine to be price competitive. ish. Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo likely have contracts locking down RAM prices whereas Valve will have to negotiate theirs based on current prices.

If Valve sold the Steam Machine for any significant cost less than the Dell / HP / Lenovo equivalent, HNers would snap them up by the truckload to repurpose as home or work machines with guaranteed Linux compatibility.

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#73

Post by ShowalkKama »

tedunangst wrote: post #71
sand500 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just usable, better performant than Windows too. https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2025/06/games-run-faster-on-s...

Why do you link that article but not this one? https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/11/ars-benchmarks-show-s...

becuase the one he linked is from this year, the one you linked is from 10 years ago

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#74

Post by ThrowawayB7 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #50
echelon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valve's products are 100% designed to punch a hole through Windows Store monopolization. It encourages developers to write for Linux. Microsoft has been trying to corner Valve. Valve is finding clever ways out by getting developers to finally make their games Linux compatible. If Valve's consoles become broadly successful, that's an added bonus. The real win is to outflank Microsoft. One of Microsoft's biggest mistak…

> One of Microsoft's biggest mistakes was to give up on Windows Phone. They had no other choice. The technical foundation of the prior WP versions (aka, Windows CE) was just too dated and they didn't have a Windows kernel / userland capable of performantly dealing on ARM, x86 performance was and still is utter dogshit on battery powered devices, they didn't have a Windows userland actually usable on anything touch ba…

As I recall, that is not correct. There was a gargantuan internal effort to refactor Windows 10 to run on everything from mobile devices to servers. Windows Phone 10 was running Windows 10. And the tile UI was well received by those who had WP devices.

As others have said, lack of critical apps and shenanigans from Google is what killed sales which led to the death of Windows Phone.

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#75

Post by ThrowawayB7 »

ZeroConcerns wrote: post #5

Well, Valve got seriously concerned about the Windows Store, like, a decade ago, since that could have reduced the stranglehold of Steam on the gaming marketplace. Turns out that the usual Microsoft incompetence-and-ADHD have kind-of eliminated that threat all by itself. Also: turns out that, if you put enough effort into it, Linux is actually a quite-usable gaming platform. Still: are consumers better off today than…

> "Also: turns out that, if you put enough effort into it, Linux is actually a quite-usable gaming platform."

Valve is the one putting in the effort and paying for it at their own expense. If they ever lose interest in paying for it, like GabeN retiring and Ebenezer Scrooge replacing him, then it's game over for Linux gaming (literally).

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#76

Post by ZeroConcerns »

ShowalkKama wrote: post #73
tedunangst wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you link that article but not this one? https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/11/ars-benchmarks-show-s...

becuase the one he linked is from this year, the one you linked is from 10 years ago

And yet, not much has changed in that decade, right? Well, other than the Steam Deck, which is a well-defined set of hardware for a specific purpose, and which is the main driver for Linux game compatibility...

And that's great! But for a random owner of random hardware. the experience is, well... same as it ever was?

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#77

Post by jijijijij »

kemayo wrote: post #3
CuriouslyC wrote: post #2

Valve has a spear lined up at so much of big tech right now it's honestly impressive they've done it in stealth for so long. Google, Microsoft and Apple are all in the crosshairs in a big way, and I don't think they can avoid the blow that's coming without cannibalizing their margins.

I'm not sure they've got Apple targeted so much, because Apple has been so thoroughly not-invested in gaming. The place they're closest to colliding is VR, but Apple's Vision headset is doing something really different from Valve's VR products, which are far more directly lined up against Meta's Oculus. Valve could branch into Apple's areas, but they don't seem particularly interested in doing so yet. EDIT: rather, A…

> because Apple has been so thoroughly not-invested in gaming

Is Apple invested in anything at all right now? Seems like they are only ever iterating over the same products in their idiotically domain separated legacy zoo of devices. Lately even fucking that up with UI "innovation" literally everyone hates. I mean, who's talking about Apple VR anymore? Apple AI is a meme. What are they cooking with all that cash?

I don't think Valve has to even consider Apple.

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#78

Post by beAbU »

debugnik wrote: post #33
echelon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valve's products are 100% designed to punch a hole through Windows Store monopolization. It encourages developers to write for Linux. Microsoft has been trying to corner Valve. Valve is finding clever ways out by getting developers to finally make their games Linux compatible. If Valve's consoles become broadly successful, that's an added bonus. The real win is to outflank Microsoft. One of Microsoft's biggest mistak…

> It encourages developers to write for Linux. Valve actually encourages devs to only provide Windows builds compatible with Proton, or at least it used to, to the disappointment of some professional porters. Mainly because several devs kept leaving their Linux builds abandoned while still maintaining their Windows ones.

If the windows build already performs better than on native windows, why faff around with another build target and all its associated complexities (testing, etc).

Targeting Linux means probably targeting all distros, and that's asking for trouble I reckon.

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#79

Post by bryanlarsen »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #72
bryanlarsen wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2025 none of Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo sell their consoles at a loss. They're sold for very slim margins, which is what I assume Valve will do with the Steam machine. I expect the Steam Machine to be price competitive. ish. Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo likely have contracts locking down RAM prices whereas Valve will have to negotiate theirs based on current prices.

If Valve sold the Steam Machine for any significant cost less than the Dell / HP / Lenovo equivalent, HNers would snap them up by the truckload to repurpose as home or work machines with guaranteed Linux compatibility.

I'm sure Valve would be ecstatic if they were snapped up by the truckload for home use, because home use and gaming use overlap significantly even if not perfectly.

For business use, the Beelink equivalent is about $350, because the GPU in the Steam Machine is useless for business or AI use. The Steam Machine is going to be more than $350.

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#80

Post by atrus »

PeterHolzwarth wrote: post #9

It will be interesting to see if they can answer a question better now than with the original Steam Machines ten years ago: what problem do consumers have that Steam Machines solve? Their original answer was a resounding "nothing" - Steam Machines solved a problem for Valve (fear of an impending "Windows Store" being added by Microsoft that would steal the battlefield from Valve), but very little for the customer. I…

Convienence. Consoles are popular because you just plop down, hit the on button and play (in theory).

And while people don't care how much spy/adware their computer is, they do care when frequent notifications, popups and updates interfere with what you're doing. Nothing more annoying that having a windows notif steal focus from a game you're playing through steam link in the other room (personal experience).

I'm so glad that they've improved steam and link on linux so much, having to run it on my s/o windows computer was a pain.

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