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Kaiju – General purpose 3D/2D game engine in Go and Vulkan with built in editor

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Re: Kaiju – General purpose 3D/2D game engine in Go and Vulkan with built in editor

#71

Post by tapoxi »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #58
tapoxi wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDScript in Godot doesn't use GC, it uses reference counting and doesn't "stop the world". Other languages that bind into the engine do this too, (C++, SwiftGodot, Rust-Godot) C# obviously does, Miguel de Icaza actually started SwiftGodot because he (ironically) ended up hating GC pauses after promoting C# for so long

I haven't dug deep enough into C# to say this with certainty, but I believe later C# versions allows you to do enough manual allocation to "almost" get around the garbage collector. As well as new calls to try and nudge the GC away from hot paths. You need to be very disciplined to pull this off, though. LINQ is basically off limits, for example. And of course, Godot's C# is likely much older than these modern techni…

Godot's C# is fairly recent, C#12/.NET 8.

Re: Kaiju – General purpose 3D/2D game engine in Go and Vulkan with built in editor

#72

Post by jadsfwasdfsd »

Why would you want segmented stacks, cgo FFI overhead, goroutines, & asynchronous preemption for a game engine? Odin is better suited than Go is for this type of software. Almost any programming language would have been a better choice here. This is rage bait I'm sure.

Maybe TinyGo can save their ass here?

Re: Kaiju – General purpose 3D/2D game engine in Go and Vulkan with built in editor

#73

Post by jedbrooke »

wredcoll wrote: post #63
drnick1 wrote: post #60

A GC language is a non-starter for a game engine, I thought this was "game development 101" level knowledge. There is a reason every major game engine actually used to make games is written in C++, with some scripting language on top of that for game logic if necessary.

Minecraft.

to be fair minecraft Java edition isn’t exactly known for having great performance. It will run on a potato, but still runs like a potato even on fast hardware.

This is also not mentioning that the by far more popular version of the game (by player count) “Minecraft Bedrock edition” is written in C++ precisely for performance reasons on low end mobile hardware

Re: Kaiju – General purpose 3D/2D game engine in Go and Vulkan with built in editor

#74

Post by crq-yml »

eek2121 wrote: post #70
MindSpunk wrote: post #15

Seems like a cool project. I don't understand why they're calling out the FPS of an empty scene as a useful number compared to Unity though. Ignoring that this engine will have a fraction of the features of Unity (the likely reason for the FPS number in the first place), it's just a useless benchmark because it's an empty scene. `while (true) {}` will get you the same thing. I'd wish they'd highlight how the engine h…

Agreed. Unity has a ton of features that even Godot lacks. (Unreal also has a ton of features they all lack). I know a lot of different languages and frameworks, from C/C++ up, so I say this: The language is never the issue. Language is just syntax. ease of use is everything. I've been wanting to make a game for a long time. I toyed with OpenGL/DirectX at multiple points since the 90s, even going so far as to creatin…

There's a cruel truth to electing to use any dependency for a game, in that all of it may or may not be a placeholder for the final design. If the code that's there aligns with the design you have, maybe you speed along to shipping something, but all the large productions end up doing things custom somewhere, somehow, whether that's in the binary or through scripts.

But none of the code is necessary to do game design either, because that just reflects the symbolic complexity you're trying to put into it. You can run a simpler scene, with less graphics, and it will still be a game. That's why we have "10-line BASIC" game jams and they produce interesting and playable results. The aspect of making it commercial quality is more tied to getting the necessary kinds and quantities of feedback to find the audience and meet them at their expectations, and sometimes that means using a big-boy engine to get a pile of oft-requested features, but I've also seen it be completely unimportant. It just depends a lot on what you're making.

Re: Kaiju – General purpose 3D/2D game engine in Go and Vulkan with built in editor

#75

Post by johnnyanmac »

tapoxi wrote: post #71
johnnyanmac wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't dug deep enough into C# to say this with certainty, but I believe later C# versions allows you to do enough manual allocation to "almost" get around the garbage collector. As well as new calls to try and nudge the GC away from hot paths. You need to be very disciplined to pull this off, though. LINQ is basically off limits, for example. And of course, Godot's C# is likely much older than these modern techni…

Godot's C# is fairly recent, C#12/.NET 8.

That's good to know. So it probably has the capability if you really wanted to dig in.

But that effort on an active engine would quite a long time to comb through. Really comes down to if a highly invested contributor wants to push it through and gets the go ahead.

Re: Kaiju – General purpose 3D/2D game engine in Go and Vulkan with built in editor

#76

Post by samdoesnothing »

filleduchaos wrote: post #66
samdoesnothing wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making a game with Godot or Unity is much easier than making an engine.

I think they are referring to the game engine developers in both cases.

Why would game engine developers want to make a game though? Plenty of devs prefer building the underlying frameworks and tools over the products those tools create.

Re: Kaiju – General purpose 3D/2D game engine in Go and Vulkan with built in editor

#77

Post by Rohansi »

tapoxi wrote: post #71
johnnyanmac wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't dug deep enough into C# to say this with certainty, but I believe later C# versions allows you to do enough manual allocation to "almost" get around the garbage collector. As well as new calls to try and nudge the GC away from hot paths. You need to be very disciplined to pull this off, though. LINQ is basically off limits, for example. And of course, Godot's C# is likely much older than these modern techni…

Godot's C# is fairly recent, C#12/.NET 8.

Yes, as long as you're not using Godot 3.x. Some still use 3.x (Mono) because 4.x (.NET) does not support web exports.

Re: Kaiju – General purpose 3D/2D game engine in Go and Vulkan with built in editor

#78

Post by chrisweekly »

eek2121 wrote: post #70
MindSpunk wrote: post #15

Seems like a cool project. I don't understand why they're calling out the FPS of an empty scene as a useful number compared to Unity though. Ignoring that this engine will have a fraction of the features of Unity (the likely reason for the FPS number in the first place), it's just a useless benchmark because it's an empty scene. `while (true) {}` will get you the same thing. I'd wish they'd highlight how the engine h…

Agreed. Unity has a ton of features that even Godot lacks. (Unreal also has a ton of features they all lack). I know a lot of different languages and frameworks, from C/C++ up, so I say this: The language is never the issue. Language is just syntax. ease of use is everything. I've been wanting to make a game for a long time. I toyed with OpenGL/DirectX at multiple points since the 90s, even going so far as to creatin…

> "Unity has a ton of features that even Godot lacks. (Unreal also has a ton of features they all lack)."

Hard to interpret w/out more detailed comparison but stack-ranking their featurefulness, is it Unreal, Unity, Godot?

Re: Kaiju – General purpose 3D/2D game engine in Go and Vulkan with built in editor

#80

Post by ChadNauseam »

chrisweekly wrote: post #78
eek2121 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Unity has a ton of features that even Godot lacks. (Unreal also has a ton of features they all lack). I know a lot of different languages and frameworks, from C/C++ up, so I say this: The language is never the issue. Language is just syntax. ease of use is everything. I've been wanting to make a game for a long time. I toyed with OpenGL/DirectX at multiple points since the 90s, even going so far as to creatin…

> "Unity has a ton of features that even Godot lacks. (Unreal also has a ton of features they all lack)." Hard to interpret w/out more detailed comparison but stack-ranking their featurefulness, is it Unreal, Unity, Godot?

Unity can't really be said to have less or more features than Unreal IMO. Each has features lacked by the other, and neither lacks anything really major. But if I had to pick one for being the most featureful, I'd pick Unreal. Unreal has a built-in visual programming language* and some very advanced rendering tech you might have heard about. Unity has tons of features for 2D games lacking in Unreal and supports WebGL as a build target.

(Though imo unity is the better engine. Unreal has so many bugs and so much jank that to make a real game with it you basically need a large enough team that you can have a dedicated unreal-bug-fixer employee.)

*Technically Unity has a visual scripting language too but IIUC it's tacked on and I've never heard of anyone actually using it.

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