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Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

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Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#71

Post by CamouflagedKiwi »

baq wrote: post #52
mkornaukhov wrote: post #39

IMHO, the main advantage of github is that it is an ecosystem. This is a well-thought-out Swiss knife: a pioneering (but no longer new) PR system, convenient issues, as well as a well-formed CI system with many developed actions and free runners. In addition, it is best to use code navigation simply in a web browser. You write code, and almost everything works effortlessly. Having a sponsorship system is also great,…

> a pioneering (but no longer new) PR system having used gerrit 10 years ago there's nothing about github's PRs that I like more, today. > code navigation simply in a web browser this is nice indeed, true. > You write code, and almost everything works effortlessly. if only. GHA are a hot mess because somehow we've landed in a local minimum of pretend-YAML-but-actually-shell-js-jinja-python and they have a smaller or…

The main thing I like about Github's PRs is that it's a system I'm already familiar with and have a login/account for. It's tedious going to contribute to a project to find I have to sign up for and learn another system.

I've used Gerrit years ago, so wasn't totally unfamiliar, but it was still awkward to use when Go were using it for PRs. Notably that project ended up giving up on it because of the friction for users - and they were probably one of the most likely cases to stick to their guns and use something unusual.

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#72

Post by sznio »

exceptione wrote: post #38
bayindirh wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, they're battling with DDoS all the time. I follow their account on Mastodon, and they're pretty open about it. I believe the correct question is "Why they are getting DDoSed this much if they are not something important?" For anyone who wants to follow: https://social.anoxinon.de/@Codeberg Even their status page is under attack. Sorry for my French, but WTF?

Crazy. Who would have an incentive to spend resources on DDoS'ing Codeberg? The only party I can think of would be Github. I know that the normalization of ruthlessness and winner-takes-all mentality made crime mandatory for large parts of the economy, but still cannot wrap my mind around it.

>The only party I can think of would be Github.

I think it's not malice, but stupidity. IoT made even a script kiddie capable of running a huge botnet capable of DDoSing anything but CloudFlare.

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#73

Post by CamouflagedKiwi »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #69

Zig is distributed under the MIT License. MS is completely with in their rights to clone the git repository from Codeberg and do whatever with the source code. Including feeding it to their AI algorithms. Moving it to Codeberg doesn't really fix that. I get that some people want to restrict what people can do with source code (including using it for capitalist purposes or indeed ai/machine learning). But the whole po…

> Zig is distributed under the MIT License. MS is completely with in their rights to clone the git repository from Codeberg and do whatever with the source code. Including feeding it to their AI algorithms. Moving it to Codeberg doesn't really fix that. I get that some people want to restrict what people can do with source code (including using it for capitalist purposes or indeed ai/machine learning). But the whole point of many open source licenses (and especially the MIT license) is actually the opposite: allowing people to do whatever they want with the source code.

MS training AIs on Zig isn't their complaint here. They're saying that Github has become a worse service because MS aren't working on the fundamentals any more and just chasing the AI dream, and trying to get AI to write code for it is having bad results.

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#74

Post by matrss »

tonyhart7 wrote: post #64
exceptione wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crazy. Who would have an incentive to spend resources on DDoS'ing Codeberg? The only party I can think of would be Github. I know that the normalization of ruthlessness and winner-takes-all mentality made crime mandatory for large parts of the economy, but still cannot wrap my mind around it.

its easier for MS to buy codeberg and close it than to spent time and money to DDOS things

How do you buy an e.V.?

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#75

Post by rcxdude »

exceptione wrote: post #38
bayindirh wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, they're battling with DDoS all the time. I follow their account on Mastodon, and they're pretty open about it. I believe the correct question is "Why they are getting DDoSed this much if they are not something important?" For anyone who wants to follow: https://social.anoxinon.de/@Codeberg Even their status page is under attack. Sorry for my French, but WTF?

Crazy. Who would have an incentive to spend resources on DDoS'ing Codeberg? The only party I can think of would be Github. I know that the normalization of ruthlessness and winner-takes-all mentality made crime mandatory for large parts of the economy, but still cannot wrap my mind around it.

DDoS are crazy cheap now, it could be a random person for the lulz, or just as a test or demo (though I suspect Codeberg aren't a bit enough target to be impressive there).

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#76

Post by matrss »

mkornaukhov wrote: post #39

IMHO, the main advantage of github is that it is an ecosystem. This is a well-thought-out Swiss knife: a pioneering (but no longer new) PR system, convenient issues, as well as a well-formed CI system with many developed actions and free runners. In addition, it is best to use code navigation simply in a web browser. You write code, and almost everything works effortlessly. Having a sponsorship system is also great,…

> a pioneering (but no longer new) PR system

Having used Forgejo with AGit now, IMO the PR experience on GitHub is not great when trying to contribute to a new project. It's just unnecessarily convoluted.

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#77

Post by TheDong »

CamouflagedKiwi wrote: post #71
baq wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a pioneering (but no longer new) PR system having used gerrit 10 years ago there's nothing about github's PRs that I like more, today. > code navigation simply in a web browser this is nice indeed, true. > You write code, and almost everything works effortlessly. if only. GHA are a hot mess because somehow we've landed in a local minimum of pretend-YAML-but-actually-shell-js-jinja-python and they have a smaller or…

The main thing I like about Github's PRs is that it's a system I'm already familiar with and have a login/account for. It's tedious going to contribute to a project to find I have to sign up for and learn another system. I've used Gerrit years ago, so wasn't totally unfamiliar, but it was still awkward to use when Go were using it for PRs. Notably that project ended up giving up on it because of the friction for user…

> Notably [go] ended up giving up on [gerrit]

That's not accurate. They more or less only use Gerrit still. They started accepting Github PRs, but not really, see https://go.dev/doc/contribute#sending_a_change_github

> You will need a Gerrit account to respond to your reviewers, including to mark feedback as 'Done' if implemented as suggested

The comments are still gerrit, you really shouldn't use Github.

The Go reviewers are also more likely than usual to assume you're incompetent if your PR comes from Github, and the review will accordingly be slower and more likely to be rejected, and none of the go core contributors use the weird github PR flow.

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#79

Post by Daegalus »

themgt wrote: post #19

I have sympathy for some of the GitHub complaints. otoh just went to try to signup for Codeberg and it's down ... 95% uptime over the last 2 weeks? https://status.codeberg.org/status/codeberg

Just a reminder, Codeberg is for open source projects only, and maybe some dotfiles and such. Its on their frontpage and in their TOS.
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