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Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

evanhahn.com

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Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#71

Post by GaryBluto »

I don't understand why so many open source developers don't want truly free software. Your software isn't free if people can't do whatever they want with it.

"Evil" is also a bad descriptor to use. If I started giving out apples for free on the street (of which I had an infinite supply), I wouldn't be upset if nobody came back with an improved apple for me to use instead.

> I don’t just want to do this for my little project; I want to slowly change the discourse. I’m not sure how to do that effectively, if it’s even possible.

So he's decided that as the supreme arbiter of what is good and just that he'll be trying to slowly boil open source's collective frogs. How narcissistic.

> How can I bring more attention to this issue given the relative popularity of my project? Do I write a blog post? A callout in the documentation?

No. Because it doesn't matter.

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#73

Post by kazinator »

PunchyHamster wrote: post #35

Just make it GPL, there is no chance evil company would tolerate the enforcement of giving back, let alone lawyers to make sure they comply.

GPL does not prohibit evil uses. You can put GPLed crap in weapons systems that are used for striking civilian targets.

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#74

Post by rsingel »

crabmusket wrote: post #56

Two thoughts. Ben Thompson and James Allworth discussed an idea on an episode of The Exponent ( https://exponent.fm/ ) the idea of a "principle stack", and at which "layer" of the stack it's appropriate to address different societal issues. I wish I could find the episode again, it was quite a few years ago. The upshot being... maybe software licensing isn't the right place to address e.g. income inequality? On the o…

I agree and it's happening. I co-founded Outpost Publishers Cooperative as a member services co-op to provide enterprise-level subscription services to publishers on Ghost (which is a non-profit).

I'm biased but I think the model of member-service co-ops (like Ace Hardware) providing tailored software services to particular industries is fertile ground. Free of VC incentives, reasonably profitable, aligned incentives, and the state of software tooling makes this doable.

And since this model doesn't require capturing as much value as a VC funded venture, it's more sustainable.

But the hard thing is figuring out how to get to decent product without upfront investment, in lieu of investment models that don't require outsize returns.

I can think of ways to create early capital but I've yet to see an industry think through how to fund smart suppliers without falling into the trap of thinking they need to be VCs.

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#75

Post by m463 »

PunchyHamster wrote: post #35

Just make it GPL, there is no chance evil company would tolerate the enforcement of giving back, let alone lawyers to make sure they comply.

GPL does not restrict the USE of the software.

The rights are for the USER and he may use it for any purpose.

The responsibility comes with redistribution - you must pass the source code and along any modifications you have made - passing on the rights you received.

basically any restriction on the use makes it not free software.

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#77

Post by burnt-resistor »

smeej wrote: post #39
cadamsdotcom wrote: post #11

Open source is a gift you’re giving. Companies take that gift and use it to provide a service for cheaper than it would otherwise be if they had to build it all themselves. You are already benefiting from open source - but it is a tiny benefit and subtle and very indirect and very diffuse. Licensing is thorny but it’s personal choice too.. would you use a project whose license is “use it for now unless or until I dec…

I think I probably would use a project that had a license that said "you can use this for now, but if I later decide I don't want evil people to use it, you'll have to maintain your own fork based on the last version before I made that decision." Isn't that kind of always the bargain we're making? We can use someone's work as long as they're willing to let us, but if they change the license, we might not be able to c…

No. Things given away are inanimate and lack agency.

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#78

Post by GaryBluto »

rKarpinski wrote: post #19

Whats the context to wanting to stop "bad guys" from using your open source project? Might want to elaborate while you're on the front page!

His Mastodon is linked at the bottom of the page and from what I've seen it's likely that this is because of a dislike of ICE.

The thing that confounds me is, this person thinks that what ICE is doing is illegal, so why does he think ICE would suddenly care about the law when it comes to software licenses?

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#79

Post by rsingel »

rsingel wrote: post #74
crabmusket wrote: post #56

Two thoughts. Ben Thompson and James Allworth discussed an idea on an episode of The Exponent ( https://exponent.fm/ ) the idea of a "principle stack", and at which "layer" of the stack it's appropriate to address different societal issues. I wish I could find the episode again, it was quite a few years ago. The upshot being... maybe software licensing isn't the right place to address e.g. income inequality? On the o…

I agree and it's happening. I co-founded Outpost Publishers Cooperative as a member services co-op to provide enterprise-level subscription services to publishers on Ghost (which is a non-profit). I'm biased but I think the model of member-service co-ops (like Ace Hardware) providing tailored software services to particular industries is fertile ground. Free of VC incentives, reasonably profitable, aligned incentives…

I'd say too we aren't the only ones. Plausible Analytics is a great, mission-driven, open-soutce non-profit providing cookie-free web analytics.

And they let us bulk buy for our member publishers.

There's so much potential in what you are suggesting!

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#80

Post by mamcx »

rsingel wrote: post #74
crabmusket wrote: post #56

Two thoughts. Ben Thompson and James Allworth discussed an idea on an episode of The Exponent ( https://exponent.fm/ ) the idea of a "principle stack", and at which "layer" of the stack it's appropriate to address different societal issues. I wish I could find the episode again, it was quite a few years ago. The upshot being... maybe software licensing isn't the right place to address e.g. income inequality? On the o…

I agree and it's happening. I co-founded Outpost Publishers Cooperative as a member services co-op to provide enterprise-level subscription services to publishers on Ghost (which is a non-profit). I'm biased but I think the model of member-service co-ops (like Ace Hardware) providing tailored software services to particular industries is fertile ground. Free of VC incentives, reasonably profitable, aligned incentives…

> how to get to decent product without upfront investment

Yeah, this is the hard part.

I work in the small “ERP-like” business market and I’ve come up with some good ideas (based on the reaction of the people I talk to). But the problem is that even a small team of about five genuinely solid developers can cost around US $300,000–500,000 per year — and that’s even factoring in that I’m in LATAM!.

That’s a lot.

To make something like this happen, you need to convince fairly big players — the ones who have the capital and the patience, but more importantly the vision. And that’s the part that’s rare. At least in theory, that’s what VCs are supposed to bring.

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