KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support • Hacker News Board

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#71

Post by ferguess_k » Wed, Nov 26, 2025, 4:56 PM UTC

gary_0 wrote: post #61

ferguess_k wrote: post #52

I live in a cave and am not a system programmer -- what's so wrong with X11 so people need to replace it with something else instead of improving it? Or, what's so wrong with anything so people need to replace it with something else instead of improving it? Let's say I'm an old man favoring improving existing stuffs instead of starting from scratch. I like debugging and wish to work as a sys programmer specialized in…

> what's so wrong with X11 so people need to replace it 1. Security - Any program using X11 can read keystrokes, passwords, or the contents of any other window. Fixing this would break all existing X11 applications. 2. Performance - X11's client-server model doesn't work with hardware accelerated graphics, requiring hacks to get around. X11 is basically stuck with this legacy. The ground-up re-design of X11 to fix th…

Thanks. I see both are very valid reasons to drop X11.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#72

Post by willis936 » Wed, Nov 26, 2025, 4:56 PM UTC

aidenn0 wrote: post #51

Wayland is missing one thing still for me. Perhaps someone can tell me there is a way to do this: 1. ssh into a machine with a running session 2. start (something) that lets me remotely connect to it Right now I have two working solutions for X11 (x11vnc, freerdp-shadow) but zero for Wayland. I think this is intentional because the venn diagram of remote-access-tools and malware has a large intersection, but it's ver…

I've had good luck with Ubuntu 25.10's builtin remote desktop RDP server. I think it's gnome remote desktop, but I'm not certain.

https://github.com/GNOME/gnome-remote-desktop

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#73

Post by jamesbelchamber » Wed, Nov 26, 2025, 4:57 PM UTC

voidfunc wrote: post #60

ferguess_k wrote: post #52

I live in a cave and am not a system programmer -- what's so wrong with X11 so people need to replace it with something else instead of improving it? Or, what's so wrong with anything so people need to replace it with something else instead of improving it? Let's say I'm an old man favoring improving existing stuffs instead of starting from scratch. I like debugging and wish to work as a sys programmer specialized in…

OSS is an intersection of commercial and hobbyist programmers and agendas. If youre a hobbyist you may prefer to spend time working on green field rather than the existing. This eventually culminates in some new stuff replacing the old. Not saying that is what happened here, but sometimes the answer is because the old one is just not fun to work on anymore.

"the people who did the work, did this" is basically the answer to most things, and I think here you're right - ultimately, working on X sucked and more people were willing to rewrite a whole new windowing system than to keep working on X.

There is some interesting reasoning behind that (which I will let more learned people expand on) but since I'm not doing the work I'm pretty zen about just accepting the decisions of the people who did.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#74

Post by maeln » Wed, Nov 26, 2025, 4:57 PM UTC

kanbankaren wrote: post #17

Wayland has still no way to set DPI of multiple monitors. The fonts look terrible on it. I had to move to KDE Plasma on X11 ever since GNOME started forcing Wayland on us. I guess I have to buy a 4K monitor in future.

> Wayland has still no way to set DPI of multiple monitors.

It does, but not every DE expose that functionality. There is some command that should be DE-agnostic like wlr-randr that should allow you to do that.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#75

Post by matkoniecz » Wed, Nov 26, 2025, 4:59 PM UTC

ferguess_k wrote: post #52

I live in a cave and am not a system programmer -- what's so wrong with X11 so people need to replace it with something else instead of improving it? Or, what's so wrong with anything so people need to replace it with something else instead of improving it? Let's say I'm an old man favoring improving existing stuffs instead of starting from scratch. I like debugging and wish to work as a sys programmer specialized in…

> Or, what's so wrong with anything so people need to replace it with something else instead of improving it?

not claiming that it applies here, but I wrote some small programs where writing my own library from scratch too less time than I spend on trying to understand existing one

In another case I was unaware that existing solution exists and I tried writing my own one (then migrated when I realized that surely this kind of thing was done and people on local hackerspace chat pointed out that it sounds like Ansible).

For that matter running joke on hackerspace chat is about spending 500 PLN and 20 hours on building a chair to save 400 PLN. Because in this case hobby playing with a wood was actual point, not maximum effectiveness.

Similarly, this year I planted basil - and fixed costs for pots etc are large enough that it will never make economic sense. But looking at plants growing from seed (and then eaten prematurely by some caterpillars) was really cool. LARPing a farmer and seeing how plant grows from tiny seed to about 50 cm plant was really cool and I recommend it.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#76

Post by kanbankaren » Wed, Nov 26, 2025, 4:59 PM UTC

electroly wrote: post #64

kanbankaren wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you arrive at 125%? What is the formula? Just eyeballing? I set DPI so that a 15pt font occupies 15pt physical space on screen. Not sure how to set DPI using fractional scaling.

The formula is DPI ÷ 96. 100% is 96 dpi, 125% is 120 dpi.

My monitor DPI is 70. 70/96 is 0.73, but there doesn't seem to be a way to set 73%?

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#77

Post by yjftsjthsd-h » Wed, Nov 26, 2025, 4:59 PM UTC

BlitzGeology91 wrote: post #50

jmclnx wrote: post #14

As a fvwm user, if Linux forces Wayland on me, I guess my 30 year use of Linux may be coming to an end. Oh well.

From your perspective, what would Linux forcing Wayland on you look like?

There are 3 ways I see it happening:

1. Applications or toolkits only supporting Wayland. An example of this is Waydroid, though thankfully that's the only example I'm currently aware of.

2. Desktop Environments only supporting Wayland. Examples now include GNOME and KDE.

3. Drivers only supporting Wayland. I think this may be the case of some "exotic" systems; I believe there are some postmarketos systems that don't have graphics with anything else. Thankfully, the existence of Wayback means this is probably a non-concern.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#78

Post by MyOutfitIsVague » Wed, Nov 26, 2025, 4:59 PM UTC

mx7zysuj4xew wrote: post #30

theoldgreybeard wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The future is now old man.

Why do you think it's acceptable to insult someone when they have a legitimate concern regarding a software defect?

For the record, it's a Malcolm in the Middle reference: https://youtube.com/watch?v=CzBi5tIfzK4

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#79

Post by big-and-small » Wed, Nov 26, 2025, 4:59 PM UTC

ferguess_k wrote: post #52

I live in a cave and am not a system programmer -- what's so wrong with X11 so people need to replace it with something else instead of improving it? Or, what's so wrong with anything so people need to replace it with something else instead of improving it? Let's say I'm an old man favoring improving existing stuffs instead of starting from scratch. I like debugging and wish to work as a sys programmer specialized in…

> I live in a cave and am not a system programmer -- what's so wrong with X11 so people need to replace it with something else instead of improving it?

This 12 years old video explains it better than anything I ever seen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIctzAQOe44

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#80

Post by aidenn0 » Wed, Nov 26, 2025, 4:59 PM UTC

ferguess_k wrote: post #52

I live in a cave and am not a system programmer -- what's so wrong with X11 so people need to replace it with something else instead of improving it? Or, what's so wrong with anything so people need to replace it with something else instead of improving it? Let's say I'm an old man favoring improving existing stuffs instead of starting from scratch. I like debugging and wish to work as a sys programmer specialized in…

Wayland was started primarily by those who were maintaining X11. There is almost nobody who is both capable of working on X11 and wants to work on it.

The redesign also reflects their priorities. The best analogy I can come up with is imagine a small group of people maintaining an old car frame and mechanical workings. They work hard to keep the engine running, but it's in a chassis with leaf springs and direct steering. It also has lots of vestigial things like a hand-crank even though most people have been using an electric starter for years. Other people use this as a platform to make complete cars with body &c. but this is both too much and too old for the small group to maintain themselves.

So they build a new, more modern engine and wait for other people to build a car around it, which is more sustainable amount of work for them. Lots of other people complain that the engine isn't a car, and when they use the engine with one brand of car, the brakes don't work and when they use it with another brand of car, the steering doesn't work. This makes sense, since previously the underlying platform implemented much of those, but now it doesn't and everyone is figuring out how to build those and couple them to the new engine.

Eventually you reach the point where each brand has created its own brakes, suspension &c. that mostly work about the same, but the only actual common component is the engine now. That's about where we are today.