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Orion 1.0

blog.kagi.com

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Re: Orion 1.0

#71

Post by evilmonkey19 »

evilmonkey19 wrote: post #48
MrAlex94 wrote: post #21

I hope I don't come across too harsh in my criticism here, but this is in my wheelhouse and I like to keep tabs on the privacy browser market in comparison to Waterfox. > A bold technical choice: WebKit, not another Chromium clone I don't find this a bold technical choice at all for a macOS only browser? I think this would be more impressive if it was Windows as well, as back (maybe ~5 or so years ago) when I was inv…

I tried Orion before and It was good to me. The closed-source part It is also something I don't like. I wish they do the browser open-source. I want to see if they use rust underneath :p. Although, let's be honest few people look at the entire codebase. However i believe It would be beneficial to make It open-source for them so they could have contributors. Also new features would be easier to add. For example, i kno…

By the way, I am trying right now Orion on MacOS and it goes quite fast as now. Actually, it is faster than Firefox at least when trying against speed.cloudflare.com under a VPN. Nonetheless the speed difference is not significant.

Also, there are two features which I would like to know/see in Orion:

- I use quite a lot the Containers and Group tabs in Firefox. The containers allow me to have different active accounts in the same browser. I use it a lot when managing AWS accounts.

- Change the behaviour of Cmd+Shift+F to be the same as Firefox, doing the full screen instead of the hide the tabs.

Re: Orion 1.0

#72

Post by temp0826 »

forgotpwd16 wrote: post #62

>While doing so, it expands Kagi ecosystem of privacy-respecting, user-centric products (that we have begun fondly naming “Kagiverse”) to now include: Search, Assistant, Browser, Translate, News with more to come. Are people really interested in those other than Search? >A bold technical choice: WebKit, not another Chromium clone Only real choice for iOS so not sure what the bold choice is for an Apple-centric browse…

I don't speak for everyone obviously but if they only provided search and it led to a lower price I'd be happy. I say this as a user of Orion (iOS); I really only use it because it's half-decent and supports uBO (though it feels pretty buggy and I'm not totally sure it's working most of the time...I really do wish more people were squashing bugs, it seems like a very small team).

Re: Orion 1.0

#73

Post by baggachipz »

forgotpwd16 wrote: post #62

>While doing so, it expands Kagi ecosystem of privacy-respecting, user-centric products (that we have begun fondly naming “Kagiverse”) to now include: Search, Assistant, Browser, Translate, News with more to come. Are people really interested in those other than Search? >A bold technical choice: WebKit, not another Chromium clone Only real choice for iOS so not sure what the bold choice is for an Apple-centric browse…

Webkit works on any OS.

Re: Orion 1.0

#74

Post by mhitza »

ivell wrote: post #42
esafak wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is. That's why I dropped Firefox.

Have you tried it out recently? On Mac and Android it is now very good. It used to be slow for me, but now on the same hardware it is fast enough that I don't see any difference compared to chrome.

Brave is still faster on Android. It probably helps that it has adblocking built-in, instead of a separate extension.

Re: Orion 1.0

#75

Post by sedatk »

have_faith wrote: post #16

> Most people switch browsers for one reason: speed. Is that true? Maybe it is and I'm out of the loop but I can't remember the last time someone complained about browser speed. The bottleneck seems to be website bloat more than anything else. Would love to see this argument quantified.

It was true, and it was what made Google Chrome popular in the first place. Internet Explorer and Firefox were dead slow to start at the time while Chrome started instantly.

We just don’t know how bad slow browsers can be because all others have caught up.

Re: Orion 1.0

#76

Post by [deleted] »

evilmonkey19 wrote: post #71
evilmonkey19 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried Orion before and It was good to me. The closed-source part It is also something I don't like. I wish they do the browser open-source. I want to see if they use rust underneath :p. Although, let's be honest few people look at the entire codebase. However i believe It would be beneficial to make It open-source for them so they could have contributors. Also new features would be easier to add. For example, i kno…

By the way, I am trying right now Orion on MacOS and it goes quite fast as now. Actually, it is faster than Firefox at least when trying against speed.cloudflare.com under a VPN. Nonetheless the speed difference is not significant. Also, there are two features which I would like to know/see in Orion: - I use quite a lot the Containers and Group tabs in Firefox. The containers allow me to have different active account…

[deleted]

Re: Orion 1.0

#77

Post by z64 »

luma wrote: post #66
z64 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I work at Kagi, but do not work on Orion) There's a lot of different reasons that people ask for open sourcing of Orion / software in general; could I ask you to expand a bit more as to which issues being open source would address for you? I can assume of course, but I'd rather listen to you articulate it, even if it's usual reasons.

Single word answer: trust. Y’all seem like nice people but trust isn’t automatic these days.

Trust with regards to...? Orion doesn't have any telemetry, doesn't force any updates on you, doesn't require any account. You can audit the application's behavior with standard tools to verify that it isn't "phoning home", etc., it doesn't need to be open source to do that, nor would making it open source obviate auditig the final executable anyways.

What do you perceive as the risk to "trusting" Orion in this case?

edit: Sandboxing the app also further reduces the surface area for "trust", though I'm unfamiliar with MacOS as a platform when it comes to that.

Re: Orion 1.0

#78

Post by rckt »

I’m going to use it on iOS and macOS. Feels like the previous Safari.

On Linux I’ll keep to Firefox.

Re: Orion 1.0

#79

Post by jeffhuys »

esafak wrote: post #37

What's the bug situation? It sucked last I checked, over a year ago. Is there a way to get a useful visualization like a burndown chart out of their bug tracker? The people who have created it seem unaware that one important task of such a tracker is to reveal the big picture and help answer questions like "Is the project getting better or worse?" They should study the Github Insights tab. https://orionfeedback.org/

Yeah, imo, it’s nowhere near ready for 1.0. I was a big advocate for this browser but recently changed because of exactly this. That, and it’s very slow after having it running constantly, I found myself routinely quitting and re-opening it every hour or two to get normal speed back, or my RAM for that matter.

So I’m back on Safari.

Re: Orion 1.0

#80

Post by rdg1991 »

colinmarc wrote: post #65
rdg1991 wrote: post #61

I love Orion, but it's pretty unusable with 1Password set up - delay on keyboard input is unbearable with the extension enabled and it slows everything down significantly. I just ran a few benchmarks with BrowserBench Speedometer: 1Password extension disabled: 17 1Password extension enabled: 10 (and the test takes much longer) Vivaldi with extension enabled: 25 I really, really want to move back to Orion as my daily…

I opened this link intending to post exactly this. 1Password is just extremely broken on Orion. It's a testament to how much I like the browser that I'm still using it despite that (and despite the fact that Github was completely broken on Webkit this summer, but that's not Orion's fault).

I was in that camp, but then switched to Vivaldi and the experience is much better. Would love to move back to Orion since I do like just about everything else that it does better.
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