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How Cops Are Using Flock's ALPR Network to Surveil Protesters and Activists

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Re: How Cops Are Using Flock's ALPR Network to Surveil Protesters and Activists

#71

Post by ahmeneeroe-v2 »

Spivak wrote: post #55
ahmeneeroe-v2 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Of course, you should instead believe your own anecdotal evidence that marks a tally every time you hear about a crime, which if you watch local news is always, but doesn't mark a tally every time there isn't a crime. Fun fact that's totally not related, did you know that people who listen to true crime podcasts are more likely to believe a crime could happen to their families and are also more likely to install high…

The fact that humans are bad at tracking stats does not necessarily mean that statistics are a more accurate "map" of reality than human intuition.

(edited for clarity)

Re: How Cops Are Using Flock's ALPR Network to Surveil Protesters and Activists

#72

Post by wakawaka28 »

pugworthy wrote: post #34
owlninja wrote: post #2

I recently contributed to https://deflock.me/ We had a local story where the gist was the police said they searched ALPR for the welfare of a young woman, but it was actually more focused on a possible abortion. [1] "Unrelated" this same Sheriff was later charged with sexual harassment, perjury, and retaliation against a witness [2]. These are the types that are able to easily track you if they wanted to. [1] https:/…

In exploring my state (Oregon), I'm seeing an interesting pattern to where they are frequently located. Specifically, at home improvement store parking lots. And in most cases, the ones at home improvement stores are the only ones in the city. Salem (the state capital) only has them at Lowes. Eugene is an exception with many cameras (including Home Depot and Lowe's). I'd be interested in when these cameras were place…

Home improvement stores have a LOT of theft, especially in some cities. People try to walk out with power tools and expensive gear all the time.

Re: How Cops Are Using Flock's ALPR Network to Surveil Protesters and Activists

#73

Post by wakawaka28 »

pugworthy wrote: post #57
SoftTalker wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because those places have a huge problem with shoplifting. At least that's the story they tell.

I imagine there's some truth to that. But if I was someone wanting to setup some ICE action, I'd probably be drooling at the thought of accessing that data being a central gathering points for day laborers looking for work. https://www.wsj.com/business/retail/home-depot-immigration-i...

As I understand it, these stores are very likely to be gathering points anyway. You don't need surveillance to tell you that. Someone could walk in posing as a contractor and ask where to find cheap workers too.

Re: How Cops Are Using Flock's ALPR Network to Surveil Protesters and Activists

#74

Post by tptacek »

ahmeneeroe-v2 wrote: post #69
tptacek wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you fix LEADS, let me know, and I'll be happy to revisit.

Don't improve anything until you can fix everything! No incremental improvements allowed!

I have no idea what this has to say with anything that I said. Did you see me saying "no, don't fix LEADS"?

Re: How Cops Are Using Flock's ALPR Network to Surveil Protesters and Activists

#75

Post by pugworthy »

wakawaka28 wrote: post #72
pugworthy wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In exploring my state (Oregon), I'm seeing an interesting pattern to where they are frequently located. Specifically, at home improvement store parking lots. And in most cases, the ones at home improvement stores are the only ones in the city. Salem (the state capital) only has them at Lowes. Eugene is an exception with many cameras (including Home Depot and Lowe's). I'd be interested in when these cameras were place…

Home improvement stores have a LOT of theft, especially in some cities. People try to walk out with power tools and expensive gear all the time.

Maybe? It would have to be a pretty big theft to go to all the trouble of finding the vehicle on camera, identifying the owner, figuring out if the thief was the owner, etc.

They aren’t going to do all that if it’s a relatively small value theft. And the big value stuff is usually locked down.

And if it’s for their own protection why be part of a bigger network shared with law enforcement for whatever they (LEO) wants?

Re: How Cops Are Using Flock's ALPR Network to Surveil Protesters and Activists

#76

Post by gs17 »

ahmeneeroe-v2 wrote: post #48
gs17 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the catch and release of repeat criminals caused a surge in break ins > Several criminals have been caught The actual difference here is that the second "caught" isn't followed by "and released". The camera didn't do it. My street has repeat offenders who come and steal from cars nightly. The cops know who they are and have arrested them multiple times, with them immediately being released AFAIK. A million cameras…

The community got together, worked on a solution, that solution lead to arrests. A politically savvy prosecutor would not easily dismiss an organized community with proven ability to drive results. So yes, the camera didn't do it, but it helped.

> that solution lead to arrests

There were already arrests. You can't have "catch and release" if there's no "catch".

Re: How Cops Are Using Flock's ALPR Network to Surveil Protesters and Activists

#77

Post by wakawaka28 »

pugworthy wrote: post #75
wakawaka28 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Home improvement stores have a LOT of theft, especially in some cities. People try to walk out with power tools and expensive gear all the time.

Maybe? It would have to be a pretty big theft to go to all the trouble of finding the vehicle on camera, identifying the owner, figuring out if the thief was the owner, etc. They aren’t going to do all that if it’s a relatively small value theft. And the big value stuff is usually locked down. And if it’s for their own protection why be part of a bigger network shared with law enforcement for whatever they (LEO) want…

There is no maybe about it. These thefts are well-known and spur the defensive measures you're talking about. It goes beyond just locking things up. There are AI systems tracking your movement through the store, and they can even immobilize your shopping cart on the way out if they think you didn't pay. Some tools also have RFID based activation schemes, without which they can't be used.

It is the job of the police to investigate thefts. Therefore it kind of makes sense why they might want to put up cameras in high crime areas. We just don't want the cameras to be abused. I don't want to be tracked and have the contents of my house itemized by systems like this. Is there a less intrusive way to prevent crime, perhaps by posting a security guard? I think so. But what does it cost, and would you rather pay for that or deal with the camera?

Re: How Cops Are Using Flock's ALPR Network to Surveil Protesters and Activists

#78

Post by mindslight »

potsandpans wrote: post #15
malvim wrote: post #9

Hm, the State thoroughly coopting private enterprises to oppress their people… I wonder what’s the name of that…

We can't say it though, at risk of being publicly derided as being histrionic.

As a libertarian, I'll stop calling them fascists when they stop calling themselves conservatives and actually adopt some kind of honest label for what they stand for. But that would require them to stand for something constructive rather than simping for whatever destructive looting Dear Leader has divined this week.

Re: How Cops Are Using Flock's ALPR Network to Surveil Protesters and Activists

#79

Post by fzeroracer »

nonethewiser wrote: post #20
nyc_data_geek1 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law can be utterly egregious and an affront to morality. Legal behavior can thus be an utterly egregious affront to human decency. See: Apartheid There is no handwaving away the moral implications of these technologies, and who they empower to do what to whom.

Im saying its a normal, predictable use of flock. Not that it's OK. Many readers might not know that abortions for the most part aren't legal in Texas. You should expect flock to assist law enforcement in catching people doing something illegal.

Just to be clear you believe it is normal and predictable for law enforcement officers in one state to follow your movements in another state to see if you violated state law in a state where it does not apply? That kind of normal?
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