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How do the pros get someone to leave a cult?

theguardian.com

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Re: How do the pros get someone to leave a cult?

#71

Post by fluoridation »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #53
derbOac wrote: post #34

Interesting read. Framing things as a "cultic relationship" makes a lot of sense to me. The part about using your experience as a basis of truth determination being flawed and a source of vulnerability also was pretty insightful. I'm a little surprised by mention of pushback and accusations of being cult apologists, only because what they're describing as their method is pretty similar in principle to some widespread…

> The piece left me thinking that the reasons people become involved with and attached to cults might not be different at some fundamental level from a lot of other psychological problems they get themselves in — just a matter of degree or pervasiveness. It's kind of hard to articulate but the thing with cult and cult-like movements, and also somewhat cons & scams, is the "vulnerability" they exploit is the raw mater…

>A person who is immune to cult recruitment is a person who never feels isolation, desire, loneliness, grief, hope, fear of loss or lack of control, a person who never wants a hug or someone to talk to, who feels nothing at a smile from a stranger or the giggle of a baby.

Is it? Surely you can feel all those things and also be cynical enough to think no group can really provide a satisfying alternative.

Re: How do the pros get someone to leave a cult?

#72

Post by cj »

rboyd wrote: post #67

wait a minute here.. HN: - asks you to self-assign a new name upon joining - has a leader - has a hierarchy (rating system) - esteemed texts which promise by adopting a strange method (Lisp) that you can achieve higher levels of wealth and self actualization should I be worried?

First sentence of the wikipedia page for "Cult":

> Cults are social groups which have unusual, and often extreme, religious, spiritual, or philosophical beliefs and rituals.

HN is definitely a social group with unusual and often extreme philosophical beliefs that often aren't mainstream. (And that's why I keep coming back!)

Re: How do the pros get someone to leave a cult?

#73

Post by toasterlovin »

delichon wrote: post #51

cult (noun): A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader -- American Heritage Dictionary Without the "generally considered to be extremist or false" it would be quite hard to even identify a cult. It's mostly used as way to slur a disfavored group. It's an element of a…

> I belonged to a cultic political party

Minor thing, but I prefer ‘cultish’ to ‘cultic’ for your usage. In academia, ‘cultic’ means anything to do with worship and lacks the association with cults as discussed in this thread, whereas ‘cultish’ is how I usually see people adjectivize ‘cult’ in the way you are doing.

Re: How do the pros get someone to leave a cult?

#74

Post by ffsm8 »

ljm wrote: post #61
dylan604 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

40 to 60 enemas a day? Per person? Even for hyperbole, that sounds like a lot.

I knew one person--shared a flat with them--who was heavily into that sort of spiritual-esque alternative health, the sort you'd connect to the so-called Woo-to-Q pipeline these days, who would subject themselves to that kind of thing. It was all about the 'cleanse': 1. Fast on water for a week 2. Drink a cup of olive oil, straight 3. Multiple enemas several times a week 4. Maintain a raw vegan diet in between Throw…

That's roughly one per 20 minutes?

I think that's doable, it likely wasnt a traditional enema, they most likely just had to put some fluid in which consequently got absorbed by their column. Like 5 ml or so.

Definitely mind boggling people are willing to do such, but it's within my expectations for people that fall to such obvious scams/cults.

Re: How do the pros get someone to leave a cult?

#75

Post by philipallstar »

zen928 wrote: post #66
philipallstar wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like saying "if you don't like train prices then don't complain until you've tried jumping the turnstile".

Yeah, which is a reasonable statement to make on the website TrainHackersAndPassAvoiders.com. I think its appropriate if you consider yourself in the culture to be reminded of the norms everyone in that culture typically follows.

That definitely isn't the topic of this website, though.

Re: How do the pros get someone to leave a cult?

#77

Post by dfedbeef »

FooBarBizBazz wrote: post #48

Fantastic article. And their "light touch" approach seems very correct. Now -- What counts as a cult? One sufficient condition, in my opinion, would be ritualized sexual abuse, especially of children. But this is baked even into several mainstream religions, if you only open your eyes. What is good, at least, is that, like viruses, cults/religions generally evolve to be less harmful to their hosts over time. (This is…

Yep

Re: How do the pros get someone to leave a cult?

#79

Post by chinathrow »

rboyd wrote: post #67

wait a minute here.. HN: - asks you to self-assign a new name upon joining - has a leader - has a hierarchy (rating system) - esteemed texts which promise by adopting a strange method (Lisp) that you can achieve higher levels of wealth and self actualization should I be worried?

> should I be worried?

No, you can (ok, I admit: try) to leave any time.

/etc/hosts 127.0.0.1 news.ycombinator.com

Re: How do the pros get someone to leave a cult?

#80

Post by JKCalhoun »

philipallstar wrote: post #52
JKCalhoun wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate ads as much as everyone, but I think you need to at least take a modicum of steps to block ads before posting to HN that you hate seeing all the ads. (Perhaps your point though is to broadcast to everyone—who presumably are in fact blocking ads—that the site is pure awfulness without any ad-blocking. Of course you're preaching to the choir at that point anyway.)

This is like saying "if you don't like train prices then don't complain until you've tried jumping the turnstile".

If jumping the turnstile were legal, yeah. So far anyway, Reader Mode, and various ad-blockers are still legal.

I see your point generally though: accessing content that the publisher has attempted to force you to pay for. My general thought though is that it appears to be a failed (failing?) business model. I just don't know what the solution is. Perhaps if the ads avoided obscuring the content (like newspapers and magazines) I would probably just ignore them and not actively try to suppress them.

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