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Android/Linux Dual Boot

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Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#71

Post by Zak »

tonyhart7 wrote: post #60
engeljohnb wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole selling point of Android up until now was that it allowed you to install any app you want. The point of the above comment is that Google intentionally introduced the word "sideload" to make "installing an app on your own device which Google did not curate" sound more risky and sinister than it is, and I'm inclined to agree. I "make" coffee on my keurig. If Keurig decides that making any single-serve coffe p…

"The whole selling point of Android up until now was that it allowed you to install any app you want." we can debate whether this is bad thing or good thing, it would have no ends what matters is reality, the reality is google have the right to change it.

Calling something a right is an assertion about morality; it implies that a law to the contrary would be a violation of that right.

I do not believe an an OS vendor with an app store has a right to limit alternate distribution channels or that a government does something wrong by restricting such practices as unfair competition.

Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#72

Post by tapia »

toastal wrote: post #8
tapia wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just bought a second Fairphone 4 just to play a bit with pmOS. I'm really surprised by the state it is. It's not fully usable as a daily driver yet, but with some work it can get there. Waydroid works also pretty good. Of course, the major problem are banking apps and similar. I hope that some progress can be done in this direction. And, who needs working audio, if you can have python and git in your phone!? :P

I made a partition for Nix on mine so I have all the tools I need while not relying on Jolla to package things (the installable package list is quite barren). My audio works from the speakers, but the patches to make the headphone jack (something you Fairphone users no longer know of :P) work won’t come til the next release. For banks, I just use cash or log into the website on my laptop if required—while I will refu…

Yes, I think that just trying to use services that don't require special mobile apps can get you a long way. It is sometimes difficult, but now I'm beginning to move more in this direction :)

Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#73

Post by tonyhart7 »

Zak wrote: post #71
tonyhart7 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The whole selling point of Android up until now was that it allowed you to install any app you want." we can debate whether this is bad thing or good thing, it would have no ends what matters is reality, the reality is google have the right to change it.

Calling something a right is an assertion about morality; it implies that a law to the contrary would be a violation of that right. I do not believe an an OS vendor with an app store has a right to limit alternate distribution channels or that a government does something wrong by restricting such practices as unfair competition.

"I do not believe an an OS vendor with an app store has a right to limit alternate distribution channels or that a government does something wrong by restricting such practices as unfair competition."

but its not illegal and wrong tho???? if this is probihited then xbox,playstation,nintendo,ios etc would be fined already

unironically android is still more "open" than all of its competitor even after all of this

Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#74

Post by tom_alexander »

seba_dos1 wrote: post #65
tom_alexander wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> untrusted I think the important distinction is _everything_ should be considered untrusted because even trustworthy software can become malicious. For example, the XZ Utils backdoor[0]. On Android, everything I run is subject to the permission model and sandboxed. That is not the case on Linux. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XZ_Utils_backdoor

It's not the case on Android either and it could be subjected to a XZ-like backdoor just as anything else.

Could you be more specific on how to circumvent the android permission model + sandbox? So far I have only thought of two ways an XZ-like backdoor could circumvent that:

1. By being baked into the OS itself, which is unavoidable since the OS is the thing providing the sandboxing + security model. It still massively reduces the attack surface.

2. By being run through the android debug bridge, which is far from normal and something users have to explicitly enable. Leaving you the option to shoot yourself in the foot in an opt-in manner 99.9% of users will never touch isn't the same as Linux where foot-shooting is the default.

Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#75

Post by nrclark »

hexagonwin wrote: post #59
mschuster91 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen UEFI in any mainstream Android device. The problem is... in the x86 world, even the most modern systems around still ship with decades of garbage. INT 10h and VBE, every x86 system still speaks it - either directly in the card, or emulated in BIOS/UEFI compatibility layers, so even a basic "hello world" can get video output, 09h/16h gives you keyboard input, 13h gives you disk I/O, 14h a serial port.…

isn't uefi used for all the modern qcom devices..?

Yes it is. It can be hard to spot if you don’t know it’s there though.

Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#76

Post by ndriscoll »

tonyhart7 wrote: post #73
Zak wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling something a right is an assertion about morality; it implies that a law to the contrary would be a violation of that right. I do not believe an an OS vendor with an app store has a right to limit alternate distribution channels or that a government does something wrong by restricting such practices as unfair competition.

"I do not believe an an OS vendor with an app store has a right to limit alternate distribution channels or that a government does something wrong by restricting such practices as unfair competition." but its not illegal and wrong tho???? if this is probihited then xbox,playstation,nintendo,ios etc would be fined already unironically android is still more "open" than all of its competitor even after all of this

They all should be? I've never understood why gamers just accept constant blatant anti-competitive practices, going so far as to act as if "exclusives" via DRM are a good thing rather than monopolistic product tying. e.g. it's been demonstrated that a Steam Deck is technically capable of running Switch games better than a Switch, and yet you are forced to buy a Switch in order to buy the games.

It's no longer 30 years ago when hardware was unique and quirky and programs were written in assembly specifically for the hardware. It's all the same commodity parts along with what is supposed to be illegal business practices. In a reasonable world, something like Ryujinx would be just as front-and-center as Proton as part of Valve's product features, and courts would fine companies for trying to stop their software from working on other platforms.

Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#77

Post by gruez »

engeljohnb wrote: post #57
tonyhart7 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well because its not allowed to "install" from third party sources (atleast not yet) google has control on their android ecosystem behave, same reason why its not allowed in playstation or xbox or ios

The whole selling point of Android up until now was that it allowed you to install any app you want. The point of the above comment is that Google intentionally introduced the word "sideload" to make "installing an app on your own device which Google did not curate" sound more risky and sinister than it is, and I'm inclined to agree. I "make" coffee on my keurig. If Keurig decides that making any single-serve coffe p…

>The whole selling point of Android up until now was that it allowed you to install any app you want.

Could've fooled me. Maybe it was a thing a decade ago when android just launched, but none of the marketing pages for vaguely recent phones has that as a selling point. At best it's a meme that android proponents repeat on hn or reddit.

Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#78

Post by tonyhart7 »

ndriscoll wrote: post #76
tonyhart7 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I do not believe an an OS vendor with an app store has a right to limit alternate distribution channels or that a government does something wrong by restricting such practices as unfair competition." but its not illegal and wrong tho???? if this is probihited then xbox,playstation,nintendo,ios etc would be fined already unironically android is still more "open" than all of its competitor even after all of this

They all should be? I've never understood why gamers just accept constant blatant anti-competitive practices, going so far as to act as if "exclusives" via DRM are a good thing rather than monopolistic product tying. e.g. it's been demonstrated that a Steam Deck is technically capable of running Switch games better than a Switch, and yet you are forced to buy a Switch in order to buy the games. It's no longer 30 year…

because steam deck is more like "PC" than a console

I know, I know everything can be a "PC" if you look close enough but hear me

people can create their own ecosystem of walled garden whenever they want

Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#79

Post by engeljohnb »

tonyhart7 wrote: post #70
engeljohnb wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've changed the subject. We were discussing whether one ought to use Google's term for it, or the term that's been used to describe this action since (I assume) the beginning of personal computing. Not whether Google is legally allowed to make the change. My reason for bringing up the "selling point" was to bring attention to the language -- "You can install any app you want" has always been the common refrain whe…

"You can install any app you want" the asnwer is not anymore

What does that have to do with whether we should say "install" or "sideload?"

Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#80

Post by ndriscoll »

tonyhart7 wrote: post #78
ndriscoll wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They all should be? I've never understood why gamers just accept constant blatant anti-competitive practices, going so far as to act as if "exclusives" via DRM are a good thing rather than monopolistic product tying. e.g. it's been demonstrated that a Steam Deck is technically capable of running Switch games better than a Switch, and yet you are forced to buy a Switch in order to buy the games. It's no longer 30 year…

because steam deck is more like "PC" than a console I know, I know everything can be a "PC" if you look close enough but hear me people can create their own ecosystem of walled garden whenever they want

Antitrust law exists exactly to prevent companies from making their own ecosystem/walled garden that competitors cannot sell into. Product tying (forcing you to buy product B in order to buy product A) falls under that umbrella. Game console are not magical in this regard.
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